Note: Read my recent answer in Quora for more detailed elaboration: https://www.quora.com/Who-taught-yoga-to-Adiyogi-according-to-Sadhguru/answer/Shanmugam-P-12
Due to a lot of misunderstandings, let me make something very clear. If you call the Absolute, the Brahman and the inner light of all sentient beings as Shiva and if you refer to that Absolute as the first guru, I don’t have any disagreements at all. In fact, I insist people follow this inner light.
But Sadhguru’s version of Adiyogi is about a human being who lived 15,000 years ago, who really married a human woman called Parvathi and who gave birth to two yogis called Skanda and Ganesha.
In other words, he implies that all Puranic stories are real and not metaphorical. But his story of Adiyogi actually matches a folk story of Nandinatha which is prevalent in Kashmir Shaivism. Before you comment, I request the readers to fully understand the intention of the article.
For more details and clarity, don’t fail to read the above mentioned Quora answer and also this one: What is the derivation of the word ‘Shiva’?. In this Quora answer, I have clearly explained the derivation of the word Shiva. Also, read this post to understand the metaphorical meaning of Ganesha and Skanda: A Shamatha Meditation Based on Symbolism, Visualization, Mnemonics and Classical Conditioning)
Recently, a 112-foot Adiyogi statue was unveiled in Isha Foundation, Coimbatore by Prime Minister Narendra Modi. The beautiful statue was designed by Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev as a credit to the first yogi and as an inspiration for the world. But who is the actual first yogi revered by yogic tradition? Was it really the mystical Lord Shiva or someone else? Sadly, the original Adi yogi has been forgotten and has been replaced by a carelessly spun story by Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev.
Let me first quote the story as it is narrated by Sadhguru.
Story of AdiYogi as narrated by Sadhguru
“When we say “Shiva,” there are two fundamental aspects that we are referring to. The word “Shiva” literally means “that which is not.” On another level, when we say “Shiva,” we are referring to a certain yogi, the Adiyogi or the first yogi, and also the Adi Guru, the first Guru, who is the basis of what we know as the yogic science today.
In the yogic culture, Shiva is not seen as a God. He was a being who walked this land and lived in the Himalayan region. As the very source of the yogic traditions, his contribution in the making of human consciousness is too phenomenal to be ignored. This predates all religion.
Over 15,000 years ago, Adiyogi appeared in the upper regions of the Himalayas. No one knew where he came from or what his origins were. He just came and went into intense ecstatic dance upon the mountains.
People saw that he was experiencing something that nobody had known before, something that they were unable to fathom. So they gathered around him wanting to know what it was. But no one had the courage to go near him because he was so intense, like a blazing flame of fire. So they waited, hoping something would happen. Some people waited for months and left and Only seven hardcore seekers stuck on. These seven were insistent that they must learn from him, but Shiva ignored them. They pleaded and begged him, “Please, we want to know what you know.”
At last after 84 years of intense sadhana,he decided to become a Guru. On a full moon day which is known as Guru Pournami because the Adiyogi transformed himself into the Adi Guru – the first Guru was born on that day. He took the seven disciples to Kantisarovar and started a systematic exposition of yoga in a scientific manner. He began propounding the whole mechanics of life to these seven people, not intellectually as a philosophy, but experientially. He explored every nut and bolt of creation with them. He brought forth yoga as a technology with which every human being can evolve himself.
The transmission went on for a long period of time. After many years, when it was complete and had produced seven fully enlightened beings, who are today celebrated as the Sapta Rishis, Adiyogi sent each one of them to different parts of the world. One went to Central Asia. Another went to North Africa and the Middle East, where certain schools exist even today. Another went to South America, and that is one culture that imbibed it in a deep way and made something big out of it. One went to East Asia.
One stayed right there with Adiyogi. Another one came to the lower regions of the Himalayas and started what is known as Kashmiri Shaivism. Another one went south into the Indian Peninsula. This one is very important for us because he is Agastya Muni. Of the seven Sapta Rishis, Agastya Muni has been the most effective in terms of bringing the spiritual process into practical life, not as a teaching, philosophy or a practice, but as life itself. It is the benefit of what he did that the Indian people are still enjoying because he produced hundreds of yogis who were like fireballs.” and it goes on.”
First, it looks like Sadhguru has mixed two different stories and made them into one story. I don’t mean that Sadhguru would have intentionally done that. Regardless of whether someone is enlightened or not, human memory has its limitations. Sadhguru probably heard these stories a long time ago and due to memory errors, he might have made the two stories into one, which narrates something that never happened. I don’t blame Sadhguru, but the blind followers who simply take whatever Sadhguru says as correct.
I think it is important to make a few things clear. Let me first discuss who this Shiva is and a story from mythology that talks about Dakshinamurthy. Then I will talk about the real Adi yogi, who initiated 8 sages and sent them to different parts of the world.
Who is Shiva?
First, the word ‘Shiva’ doesn’t mean ‘that which is not’, as said by Sadhguru. I have no idea how he came up with such a meaning. The word ‘Shiva’ means ‘auspicious’, which has always been used as an adjective in Vedas. The word has been used for many deities, not just Rudra, the earliest form of Lord Shiva that we know today. It was just a word used to honour someone. Slowly, the word ‘Shiva’ got associated with the Vedic deity Rudra.
Second, mythology is not history. The stories in mythology might have been created for various reasons: to convey deep mystic teachings in the form of a story, to help people to develop devotion for a personified form of the ultimate truth as an aid towards self-realization, to entertain people etc. A puranic story always has multiple contradictory versions, each of them created by people to glorify their own favourite personal God.
Sadhguru has many times indicated that this Adiyogi is the same as Dakshinamoorthy. But the story of Dakshinamoorthy and the story of the Adiyogi who sent 8 rishis to different parts of the world are two entirely different stories.
Let me narrate a puranic story. When Lord Brahma was doing his work of creation, he created many sons from different parts of his body. Four of his sons named Sanaka, Sanatana, Sanandana and Sanatkumara were born from the mind of Brahma. These four people became Brahmacharis against the wish of their father. It is also said that Brahma became very angry because of that, and out of anger Rudra, the earliest form of Shiva was born.
But in Shaivite traditions, it is said that these four people approached Shiva who then assumed the form of Dakshinamoorthy to teach them. He taught them about Self-realization using chin mudra that symbolically shows how a person realizes the ultimate truth. That was all his teaching! According to the story, he just taught the essence of all the scriptures by a small gesture. Note that this applies to all traditions, not just Yoga. Most of the Indian schools of thought like Advaita, Yoga, and Samkya have the same essence even though they use different terminologies.
There are different stories associated with these four kumaras. Some of them are contradictory. Each purana has its own version. So, it is very clear that Dakshinamoorthy is a pure form created for devotion and sadhana, not a historical being who walked on the earth. And Dakshninamoorthy was not shown as teaching traditional Yoga at all. He is clearly not the Adiyogi of the yogic tradition. But this is not to deny the significance of Dakshinamoorthy in anyway. He is a great symbolic representation of enlightenment.
Who is the real Adiyogi?
During 200 BC or 300 BC, a great yogi called Nandhi natha lived in mount Kailash. He was a real human being who walked this planet and was the guru of the great Patanjali. He initiated 8 disciples (Sanatkumar, Sanakar, Sanadanar, Sananthanar, Shivayogamuni, Patanjali, Vyaghrapada, and Tirumular) and sent them to various parts of the world including central Asia to spread Advaita Shaivism. The whole Yogic tradition goes back to Patanjali whose Guru was Nandi natha. Nandi Natha also composed a poem with 26 verses called Nandikeshvara Kashika.
Even today, the Nandhi natha yogic tradition regards Nandi natha as the Adiyogi. A school of this lineage called Adi Natha does regard Shiva as the first yogi, but that was just a title given to Nandinatha, since Shiva means ‘auspicious’.
Tirumular, a well known Tamil saint and the disciple of Nandhinatha was actually the one sent by Adi yogi to south India to spread this school (not Agasthiya). Shiva sending sage Agasthiya to South India to balance the earth was just another puranic story and even that story doesn’t say that he was sent to south India to teach Yoga, as Sadhguru narrates.(Again, this is not to deny the significance of Agasthiya; He was a great Siddha who made great contribution to the world).
Vigyan Bhairav Tantra – 112 techniques for Yoga
Sadhguru also says that Adiyogi statue is 112 feet high and this is to represent the 112 techniques given by Lord Shiva. These 112 techniques are from Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, which is claimed to be a part of ancient Kashmir Shaivaite text called Rudrayamala. It was composed by an unknown author sometime around 8th century AD as a form of imaginary conversation between Shiva and Shakthi.
So, this Vigyan Bhairav Tantra is in no way related to the Adiyogi Nandhi natha or a historical man called Shiva. The whole text of Vigyan Bhairav Tantra was actually popularized by Osho all over the world. Vigyan Bhairav Tantra is a very rare text which was translated to English by Paul Reps based on the commentary given by Swami Lakshman Joo Raina, a self-realized mystic of Kashmir Shaivism. The translation of Paul Reps was used by Osho to give his own commentaries.
The credit of popularizing Vigyan Bhairav Tantra goes to these three people: Lakshman Joo, Paul Reps and Osho. Without them, not many people would have known about this valuable text.
As I already mentioned in my previous article ‘The Journey of a Seeker’, Sadhguru uses so many anecdotes, information, views and ideas given by Osho but never gives him credit. Osho was an honest and courageous man who created a great worldwide awareness about self-realization. He was the first man to popularize the fact that there is nothing wrong for a self-realized man to live a normal life with all the luxuries of the world. If Osho didn’t have the courage to own 92 Rolls Royces and still claim enlightenment, we wouldn’t be accepting Sadhguru owning a helicopter or playing golf. It is easier to accept Sadhguru now because we have already seen Osho like this. Osho did all the groundwork but the poor man doesn’t get the credit.
The Adiyogi statue looks beautiful, there is no question. But he didn’t build this statue to give credit for whoever the adiyogi was. It is simply a statue of Lord Shiva built to attract crowds and tourists. If Sadhguru is the kind of man who gives credit to people, then he would have given credit to Nandhi Natha (the actual Adi yogi) and Osho already.
Read my recent answer in Quora for more detailed elaboration: https://www.quora.com/Who-taught-yoga-to-Adiyogi-according-to-Sadhguru/answer/Shanmugam-P-12
Update – Aug 5th, 2018:
As a response to the comments I have been getting from the followers of Sadhguru, I have started a video series. So, watch this series before you comment (4 videos in the playlist so far:
Here is the link to the entire playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyvcEPSjKqOk8Evwhz5tSlm5whxfZswlQ
Update 15th January 2020: If you understand Tamil, please watch this video (ஜக்கியின் பவரைப் பற்றி உங்களுக்குத் தெரியாது! ஒரு லட்சம் ரூபாய் பரிசாகப் பெரும் இந்த அரிய வாய்ப்பை இழக்காதீர்கள். இந்த வீடியோவை முழுதாகப் பார்க்கவும் (கில்மா நினைப்பில் வர வேண்டாம்! இவர் நித்யானந்தா அல்ல; அவரை விட பலே கில்லாடி):
137 thoughts on “Was Shiva the Real Adiyogi or Is that Sadhguru’s Nonsense?”
You said that what you know, he tells what he knows, ogiwhom should i belive?
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No body can be 100% sure about the past… But some of the things that I said can be verified by yourself…
1) Shiva means auspicious… Look up any sanskrit dictionary this is what you will find.. You can also find numerous vedic texts where Shiva is used as an adjective for all vedic deities…
2) The vedic deity Rudra came to be known as Shiva in the long run… Shiva as we know today is obviously a mythological character… No one can really prove that he actually existed on the planet.
3) There is an adiyogi called nandinatha who is talked about in many texts including thirumanthiram. But there is no reason to believe that this adiyogi is same as Shiva who is talked about in mythology.
4) He is taking everything that is known about Shiva as one, and giving us a cocktail version. He says that this same Adiyogi was Shiva who married Parvathi and who gave birth to Ganesh and Skandha. He has talked about this in many of his talks. When he said that all these people were actually yogis, I did find it attractive; but when it became obvious to me that he was just stating his own opinions and presenting them as facts, I stopped giving much importance to everything he says… In future, he may even go ahead and say that everything said in puranas are true…
There is no use in believing what I say or what he says anyway.. The statue is beautiful, I don’t disagree… But I think people should stop being blind and stop taking everything he says as gospel.
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Neither i believe you nor sadhguru ; because i simply do not know what it is.
And all in all ; you also shouldn’t believe others translation.
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thats good! I like that approach
who are you? there is not a little contribution of yours to the society and you come to comment or judge on a padmavibhusan…. btw are you a sanskrit scholar to confirm meaning of a word? never heard of same word with synonyms? have u gone through all sadhguru’s videos? he never asked 2 believe in any story… he quotes stories to make people understand the essense… he told many stories revolving around shankaran pilai, an immaginary charactwr, its understood dat its fictious…
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btw, who cares whats the true history is?.. all we need is peace nd order within and ofcourse the society
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1) Who are you?
The answer for the first question is here: http://qr.ae/TUNge4
2) “there is not a little contribution of yours to the society and you come to comment or judge on a padmavibhusan”
So, you know my entire history? Anyway, the best contribution that one can make to the society is finding your own liberation. I have found it, My entire story is here: https://www.quora.com/Can-anyone-tell-about-their-experiences-with-Jaggi-Vasudev-aka-Sadhguru/answer/Shanmugam-P-12
Also, there is a difference between allegation, criticism, judgement and just saying the truth. You need to understand that first before we can discuss that.
3) btw are you a sanskrit scholar to confirm meaning of a word? never heard of same word with synonyms?
I know enough Sanskrit to know that what Sadhguru says is incorrect. I write poems in Sanskrit and I have been learning it for quite a long time. I have shared my journey with Sanskrit here: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-resources-to-learn-Sanskrit/answer/Shanmugam-P-12
4) “he never asked 2 believe in any story… he quotes stories to make people understand the essense… he told many stories revolving around shankaran pilai, an immaginary charactwr, its understood dat its fictious…”
Dear Bhanu, I have watched a lot of his videos, read his books, been to satsang and I certainly understand that a story is just a story that is conveyed to understand its essense.. But Adiyogi story not just a random story that he said in a random discourse. He insists that it is true; and all Isha people believe that story and insist that it is right.
This is not really about criticism of Sadhguru as a person. My posts and videos on Sadhguru is to just to show how people blindly believe him, allows no one to question his claims or be skeptical about him, do not know how to respect another human being and abuse anyone who has an opposite opinions..
There are more than 700 comments in this whole blog as of now. There are only two kinds of people who have commented here. One kind of people are regular visitors who usually thank me for writing this blog. I get at least one email every week from a blog reader who sends an email just to express his gratitude. The other group of visitors are people who claim to be Isha volunteers but say that this blog is bullshit, I have vomitted everywhere, I am living a worthless life, my parents committed a mistake for not using a condom and more and more and more.. You can see their hateful comments in most of my blog articles about Sadhguru. Even people who don’t come off as abusive, still respond to my articles with ad hominem attack. No Isha person can sleep peacefully without taking his frustation on me after reading my blog but almost no one has the patience to actually read and understand what is being said.
Bhanu.. After seeing every Isha volunteer commenting on my blog the same way with a default template and after seeing their arrogance, I am committed to help them to see through their unconciosness… This is my service to the soceity.
Every Isha volunteer will misunderstand me and my blog and that is natural. You are not an exception. It requires extreme openmindedness and receptivity for an Isha volunteer to understand my blog because he already thinks he knows everything, after listening to a few Sadhguru vidoes. He has a preconceived notion that every person who disagrees with anything that Sadhguru says should be an idiot, funded by a Christain missionary, has done nothing worthwhile in life, an armchair critic and a loser.. Read this for more details: http://qr.ae/TUIGjX
Here are the mantras that Isha Volunteers repeat: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkMZp7BU8AAfuaY.jpg
This is not a judgement about Isha volunteers. I have written all this to make them understand what they are doing and be more openminded to opposite opinions. A true seeker will take the good and leave the rest after reading my blog..
I suggest Isha volunteers to be true meditators; not just hypocrities who keeps mindlessly asking same questions like ‘Have you done anything worth while in life? ‘ etc, Because right now their minds are full of poison. After two years of writing this blog and reading the responses of ‘Isha meditators’, I have understood that some of the most dangerous people who have the potential to disturb the peace of humanity are actually calling themselves as ‘meditators’…
First thing, I liked the way you answered. And coming to the point, actually I dont want to debate on the autheticity or truth of past history because it is like our modern intelect where facts keep changing like once we were told saturated fat is bad 4 heart and now they say white sugar is d real culprit. I too watched lot of videos of sadhguru, and liked the way he insists or forces people to meditate daily but as you mentioned want to know more about the Isha volunteers who wasted lot of their time blindly believing in what he says. I see only good intensions from sadhguru 4 d country. Please throw light with what you know on how ISHA could actually worsen order and competitiveness in d society.
Please read these posts:
That illustrious background is perfect for decorative purposes, but I fail to see any scholarship or expertise mentioned in the field of Sanatan Dharma. So you found personal liberation? Thats wonderful, but that liberation only causes you to judge someone else’s work instead of concentrating on your own. Seems to me that you aren’t actually liberated. If the world can snap you back into interacting with it at a level where you feel you need to object to someone else’s truth, you are eons away from liberation. Don’t kid yourself.
But recently i sense shankaran pillai might actually be a comic version of shankaracharya… Sadhgurus funny mind 🙏🏻
Nandhi nathan is shiva
There is nothing wrong in calling Nandhinatha as Shiva when you use the word ‘Shiva’ just as an adjective to mean ‘auspicious’..
But if you tell me that this same Nandhinatha is the one who married Parvathi and gave birth to Ganesha and Skandha, if you make a statue of Nandhinatha with a crescent moon on his head and snake on his neck, then we are mixing history and mythology. And that is what Sadhguru is doing.
I am from the Philippines and this is the 1st entry of yours that I have read and I must say, you write very coherently and rationally.
I will be reading more from you, especially, I would check out your books. Keep on doing what youre doing, dont be discouraged by Isha ‘volunteers’, truth is truth.
May Sanatana Dharma guide us all.
Satyam Shivam Sundaram. 🙂
Im happy to have found your blog.
My pranaam to you.
Shiva is formless .i
read on wiki
It seems or it looks like or it actually is… author of this bloated article somehow tilting at windmills.
Some one believe that Shiva and Adi Yogi are referring one person. Some other (author) is believe that they are two persons.
Why do not you just throw away your beliefs for a half of an hour (I do not know how much time of your life wasted to finish this article, I did not spent my time to read nonsense about religion) just to see there is wast world of creation, and in this world there is small spec, who trying fight imaginary enemies, telling us the ultimate truth about how wrong is Sadhguru and how deep his ignorance is.
You must accept (not understand by your mind but just accept) there is no one alive human being who really need your thoughts. The only one who appreciate your thoughts is you 😉
Anyway your lifespan is not so unlimited as you believe so you better shut up and look around – there is no need to read or write in the sky, there is no need in our conversation in threes around you, there is no need in people around you. You are the one who value your own thoughts. That is all 🙂
U r non spiritual person so talked like a nonsense. What sadhguru told about shiva first of all u failed to understand. The “space” or “shunya” exists everywhere. According to us this empty space is nothing. But people don’t that this space has its own conciousness just like human which is known as shiva conciousness. This huge space is called the shiva which exists but donot exit. It is hence called the nothingness which has tremendous energy or dark energy which human eyes can’t see so they called it as dark.This infinite space is a huge program or matrix in which we r in. Sadhguru tells that everything in the universe is produce from nothingness(space/shiva) and ultimately will go back to nothingness. The science behind is that space doesn’t exists but it has virtual particles which has its own atomic structures. If this atomic structures is changed anything can be produced. This is how everything is created. Modern science has also found this. Everything sadhguru told is about science. But you due to some hate reason upon him spread some rumour and made up stories.
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how are you so sure that they are mythology and not history? also when you are not 100% sure, how are you mentioning someone else’s theory as ‘nonsense’. I just wanted to know about Shiva. and your blog was the first in my search results. and the heading so disgusting that I lost interest on knowing further. you are responsible for your culture and your heritage. Just for more site visites/personal gains, please dont use tacky headlines. I am not reading your blog. and i am sure there will be many like me.
I don’t think you read or understood the post.. Read the post again and understand what is being said. I am pretty aware of the culture and heritage.
Sir, I agree with you, I want to know who Lord Shiva really is ? & How he connected with Shiva lingam?
A True seeker wouldnt believe in anything what a popular or charismatic person would say.
Sathguru obviously have alot of wisdom and have done great things but in the end is is also a human.
In the end is up to us to do our research and then take things what makes sense. This is the reason yoga is so beautiful there are set of instructions but there is so much flexibility to make it your own. Its about inner journey and a Guru is only is there to assist.
I know alot of people do believe in Sathguru like he is ‘IT’ those people are desperately looking for salvation and not caring about the journey.
Thanks for you article. It make alot of sense. I was so confused why Sathguru calls ‘Shiva’ Adiyogi. I am not an expert but i have read extensive amounts of Shiva mythology. I haven’t come across it.
Amazing article, I liked your unbiased and respectful manner of putting your views. It’s rare these days.
I’ve learned a lot from Sadhguru and he has helped me change my life to a great extent but yes, I do not believe in everything that he says. Especially the Adiyogi part.
But I disagree with you on one thing, that Sadhguru uses Osho’s teaching and doesn’t give him credit. First of all, after reading J Krishnamurti, Osho, Sadhguru, Sri Sri, Tagore, Sri Aurobindo and some other mystics, I’ve learned that they all say almost the same things in their own style.
Secondly, when I started looking for truth 7 years back, I decided not to follow any Guru because I thought it will be their truth. But as I progressed with my own contemplation, meditation and observation.. and started reading the Gurus, I realized that they’re also saying same things which I’ve been discovering on my own.
So you can’t say that Sadhguru has learned things from Osho, because they all find the same truth with our seeking.
One last thing, I find Sadhguru’s teachings more similar to J Krishnamurti than Osho.
I realise Shiva as Adiyogi . Shiva ‘s third eye is the mystical eye of awareness and the snake around his neck represents the awakened kundalini that has functions at vishuddha chakra. I am not making this point listening to sadhguru I have come across many saints yoga practitioner they say the same . Even the Naga sadhus who are popular as Shiva tribe believes it and they live like yogis
Know one belives your shit story
Thanks for your comment..
I didn’t write this article to make anybody believe in any story. So I didn’t expect you to believe in this shit.
I know that there is always a factor of uncertainty about the past. You can only conclude how likely it was for a certain incident to have happened in a certain time in the past but no one can say anything with 100% certainty..You can only reconstruct the story based on any written records or archeological evidence that we have about the past.
When someone wants to know anything that is historical, he must resort to a historical method which has its own standards. Mythology is definitely not as credible as a piece of general literature. Sadhguru’s version of the story of Adiyogi is just bits and pieces of mythology, hearsay and his own imagination. He claims that Adiyogi lived 15,000 years ago, who initiated 7 rishis, who married a yogini called Parvathi and who gave birth to two yogis, Ganesha and Skandha.
My version is from a work of literature called ‘thirumanthiram’ which just talks about Nandinatha who initiated 7 disciples and the version of the story which is traditionally held by certain yogic traditions. Even though the story that I am presenting sounds more believable and less magical, I still agree that this doesn’t completely remove the uncertainty about whoever this historical adiyogi was. In fact, there is no reason to even believe in an adiyogi at all. But Sadhguru seems to be so certain about the story. I am just questioning his certainty; I have also explained many other things in this post.
Are you a Sadhguru’s follower? Have you ever thought if it is appropriate to dismiss something as shit without providing any explanation and without addressing anything that has been explained in the series of comments here?
If you think that it is appropriate, then I dare you to read this post fully and comment: https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/2017/12/12/why-do-i-criticize-sadhguru-jaggi-vasudev/ .. Because I am pretty sure that no matter how you comment there, it is only going to add credibility to what I have said in that post.
You cannot give a form to “that which is not”. He is formless, at the same time he can take any form he wants or he can also take the form which true devotee wishes. The moment you said, “there is nothing wrong in calling Nandinatha as Shiva”. He already took that form too. You cannot give him a form describing the features. That shows how limited we are. Shiva is limitless, boundless….
Shiva is both, that which is not, and he is also that which is there everywhere. There is no place or space without him. He resides everywhere.
Remember you came from that which is not, we all came from that which is not itself.
Read big bang theory. You may understand.
Your articles show your anger over Sadguru. Not only Sadguru is saying this. Each and every Yogi who is realised says Shiva is Adiyogi.
Shiva is you, Shiva is me, Shiva is Sadguru, Shiva is everyone and everything, and also is , “that which is not”.
Probably you cannot understand.
I agreed with you…he will never be able to understand about Shiva,
Shiva is the pure Purusha and he is everything…we don’t have any abilities to award him as non adi yogi..
If you read and understand the big bang theory and physics then you will come to know that who is Shiva…I can understand that everyone put the information according to his knowledge of experience, self realisation to explain in such a way that some people not possible to get it in proper way.
If you read the Mahabharata or Bhagvad Gita Chapter 10.15 (.
स्वयमेवात्मनाऽत्मानं वेत्थ त्वं पुरुषोत्तम। भूतभावन भूतेश देवदेव जगत्पते ) that Shiva is everything.
Even though in Mahabharata Chapter 15 anushashan parva..Kirshan talk and pray to Almighty Shiva to Yudhistara…
Shiva took many form like Pashupati in Current Afaganistan where his statue found according to Indus Valley BCE 200 to 300.
Shiva is formless and limitless Almighty God as it’s mentioned in all Purana and Four Vedas.
Some bullshit people made him Rudra which was his destruction form to transfer the Universe into another form.
Rudra is just his destruction form..but don’t make it fears God….if so then why the 12 jyotirlingas, why thousands of Shiva temples found on the Earth across the globe..
It seems you still have to get matured. Shiva means auspicious. But Shiva & shakti concept is very deep and it will take time for you to understand that.
Now grihastashrami can also get enlightment but that is not osho who told. It’s mentioned in bhagvat geeta 5154 years back.
But if you want to be out from the karma sufferings then no doubt you have to come out from this physical entanglements.
Totally irrelevant to whatever that has been explained in this post; You have also come to a quick conclusion about my maturity.. Take your time to go through my posts about spiritual enlightenment…
Ohhh man …!
you are doing Incredible work Externally as matter of fact…!
Maturity is relatively varies with every individual you encounter…!
OSHO Techniques…&… Sadhguru Methods …&… Sri Sri Mindfulness … etc
“Essentially all the practices\Techniques\Methods guided to attain common goal … Mukti\Enlightenment\Endarkenment\mahasamadhi \whatever…..”
With your flamboyant narration… please reach out to as many people as you can …about “Spirituality”…!
Rather than Conflicts because… most probable thing about conflicts are it will give you endless Debates …!
Let’s reach out to as many as people collectively in any which way about SPIRITUALITY…!
Shanmugam … am i making SENSE…!?
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thank you for your explanation Sir!
its very true that Sadhguru uses a lot of Osho’s Material ..
also I agree with you that Sadhguru or many number of prominent people now are using the plat form which created by Osho with enormous courage and gutts..
just one observation… though Sadhguru is so popular, but if he talk any one of many things spoken by Osho..with the same straight forward and the same bravery as Osho expressed…. then in few days entire work of Sadhguru vanishes into thin air!
Some times Sadhguru compare him self to Osho and KrishnaMurthy…. but its too unfair and silly for Sadhguru!! as one cannot compare A Rabbit with a roaring Lion!
Thank you for your information. Even though you made it clear you are not attacking Sadhguru you of course knew you were going to get bombarded by followers who cannot handle anything but praise for whomever they have chosen as their hero. People, it is important not to put anyone on a pedestal above you – to engage in hero worship. Allow the people you take advise from to have flaws and understand you cannot rely on anyone 100% to lead you. Sincere people can go off track at any time and take you with them. A sage can have said many truthful helpful things in the past but now says things to keep you from going forward and keeping you stuck where you are. Do not attack people who see things differently from you. Do not blindly accept everything a seemingly good person tells you. you never abdicate responsibility to yourself for yourself. I personally enjoy Sadhguru and will continue to seek his wisdom but i do not sheild myself from seeing he has flaws and I will not allow him to willfully or unwittingly lead me to accept things I should not by beig passive against the slavemasters who give us religions in all forms that they edited to keep us slaves. Do they geoengineer weather where you live? Do criminals run government where you live? do they grow GMO poisonous food where you live? are they installing 5G weaponized technology where you live which will allow the tracking of everything you do like when you turn the faucet on or turn on the radio and decide when you have used too much? are they instituting cashless economy to track everything you do? i love sadhguru but he has not talked about these things happening now that are ruining our natural human state and environment. when do we say no? are we too be ok with anything and everything? does sadhguru say anything about when to disobey? what if the police/judges/politicians are criminals? i do what they say?
This is a great article. I especially like the part where you lucidly explain that allegories were developed in ancient mythology to attract the curiosity of people who would otherwise wouldn’t care about self-realization.
You are an idiot. Haven’t you even heard about bhairava vijyana. Adiyogi is among many names of Shiva. Adi means first. He was the first one ever existed in entire human history who showed that human can go beyond his physical nature. No one ever has touched even one percent of what Adiyogi had achieved. And for that he never got enough recognition. And throughout history there has been many who utilized his work but never gave credit like Gautama himself used only 1st method among 112 methods and became budha. And this is what aches Sadhuru. He is just doing marketing for shiva, that he himself was not interested in, by calling him Adiyogi.
So goes the saying Adi was first. Then you have the ones talking about an Adam and again others refer to Ask. an so onandonanon. But thats all not the point. The when where or this or that.
Does it make your life lighter, your heart filled with joy. A practice workable a life perception worthwhile breathing?
It’s not shiva but shi va which means that which is not.
Really? Can you provide reference to any sanskrit book or dictionary which gives this meaning?
Rishav, you said:
Why do you consider the meaning of “śī” only? What happened to “va”? If “śī” itself can be interpreted as “that which is not” then what is the need for “va”? Just because Sanskrit allows different meanings for the same word, you cannot give whatever meaning you like! Even going with the above folk etymology, the compound name should mean something like “pervasive grace/auspciousness” (sarva mangala).
Is coming to wordsplitting hairsplits. Shi Va oround here meanig where are my ski´s 🙂
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Adiyogi is among many names of Shiva. Adi means first. He was the first one ever existed in entire human history who showed that human can go beyond his physical nature. No one ever has touched even one percent of what Adiyogi had achieved. And for that he never got enough recognition. And throughout history there has been many who utilized his work but never gave credit like Gautama himself used only 1st method among 112 methods and became budha. And this is what aches Sadhuru. He is just doing marketing for shiva, that he himself was not interested in, by calling him Adiyogi.
First of all, do you think calling someone ‘idiot’ just to make your point is appropriate? Is this what you learnt from Isha? I see such a behavior from a lot of people who try to defend Sadhguru.. Anyway, Sadhguru repeats Osho’s words and you are just repeating Sadhguru’s words.. No one can be pretty sure about the past, thats my point… And I am questioning Sadhguru’s certainty…
Also, I am pretty sure that the word ‘Shiva’ DOES NOT mean ‘that which is not’… Anybody who has some knowledge in Sanskrit would know that.. So, please do your own research…
Also, remember that I don’t have anything against Sadhguru.. I always try to take a completely neutral position when writing such things… I am only against blindly following anybody and taking anyone’s word without doing any research…
Also, did you even read the complete article? I have read Vigyan Bhairav Tantra completely… Osho gave a complete commentary on it and Sadhguru is simply repeating Osho’s words.. Read my article again.
Finally, with all due respect, I would appreciate if you refrain from using the words such as ‘idiot’ and stupid’… This is not a place to fight or abuse… And this is the last thing that I would expect from someone who has been listening to Sadhguru…
The roots of Śiva in folk etymology is “śī” which means “in whom all things lie, pervasiveness” and va which means “embodiment of grace”.
Now if you are gifted with even a little common sense then you can tell that “in whom all THINGS lie” would itself be empty which can easily we rephrased to “that which is not”, where THINGS means all physical matter of the universe. A single sanskrit word can have multiple meanings depending on context. Sadhguru himself says that shi-va means no-thingness not nothingness.
And I’m sorry for using those negative words. I’m not defending Sadhguru and I’ve never visited isha foundation, I’m just trying to stop you from spreading wrong information. Hardly in a century great enlightened souls like Sadhguru appear on planet who take us all a step close to reality. He is one of a kind just as Osho or buddha was. Before I knew Sadhguru my believe on spirituality was close to zero due to the nonsense stories widely spread across hindu dharm but after watching sadhguru and hearing him talking about spirituality in a scientific way, my believe on spirituality is close to 100. And I’m also a great follower of OSHO. I see them both as modern pillars of Yogic science.
So my advise to you is this that try to spread information that scientifically explains yogic processes instead of writing against enlightened beings, at least not before you yourself become enlightened.
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Did you see that it is folk etymology? Folk etymology is something that is spread by common people who actually make up these things for various reasons… It is just like folk psychology which is different from the actual science of psychology… Some of these concepts are taken from poetry as well.. But it is not the actual etymology of the word ‘shiva’…
Yes.. It is true that a single word in sanskrit has many meanings… I know some basic Sanskrit myself and I always do deep research before writing anything… But the word ‘shiva’ as it was used in the earliest Sanskrit always meant auspiciousness.. Later on, the word changed to mean the puranic God Shiva…
Anyway, even if you take the folk etymological meaning of ‘in which all things lie’, you cannot simply define it as ‘no-thingness’ by our own logic. Of course, I understand where you are coming from. In spiritual context, no-thingness is usually referred to the source of everything, which is not a thing in itself, which cannot be defined by words etc…. But etymology doesn’t work that way. We can’t simply use this to change the actual etymology of a word. Because ‘that which all things lie’ doesn’t always have to be in spiritual context. The ancient human beings who probably used this root might have meant something that was related to human survival.
You said ‘ I’m just trying to stop you from spreading wrong information’.. Actually, this is exactly what I am doing. I am also creating an awareness in people to not to blindly take whatever anyone says, no matter who he is (Look up ‘authority bias’)
There is a difference between ‘certainty’ and ‘possibility’… People often misunderstand possibility as certainty… It is quite possible that there was actually a man whose name was ‘Shiva’, who walked on this planet and who was the first person to start or aggregate the nuances of yogic science.. But is it a certainty? How can anyone be certain about the past this way? If someone assumes that the very same Shiva was the adiyogi, he was also the one who married parvathi and gave birth to Ganesh and Skandha (which comes from puranic literature that grew long after after 100 BC or 100 AD) and he was also the on who gave those 112 techniques (which was actually written in medieval period, probably thousand years after the supposed adi yogi was born), then it is purely confirmation bias and not critical thinking.
The beginning of my commitment to spiritual path goes back more than 15-20 years ago. In all these years, I have seen a lot.. There is usually a spiritual honeymoon period that one goes through as soon as he discovers the spiritual path. Suddenly his perspective about the world changes and it causes a lot of excitement and also mental peace. I think you are probably in such a spiritual honeymoon period. But there is more to this… Read my story here and you may understand what I am trying to say: https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/2017/05/10/the-journey-of-a-seeker-my-story/
No one is infallible, regardless of whether they are enlightened or not.. Sometimes even enlightened people say things which are not correct. I have already given a few examples in my post ‘Journey of a seeker’ about it. Please take your time to go through it.
Sadhguru has spoken of calling the adiyogi and shiva since he is the closest thing to it. It seems youre trying to show a line of uncertanty when sadhguru himself has addressed his meaning of shiva as the adiyogi. Just as paramahansa yogananda spoke of Babaji being called shiva. Enlightened beings are no longer a personality they are embodiments of universal forces.
Alberto… You didn’t get the point… I have talked about the historical ‘adiyogi’ that he is talking about and the story he is giving…A person may choose to call the absolute reality as shiva and an enlightened person as an embodiment of Shiva. that is different…That has been a practice or custom for so long. In that line, even Adhi Shankara was called as an incarnation of Shiva… In fact, every human being is an incarnation of absolute reality…
But Sadhguru is claiming to be so certain about the story of a particular person who is supposed to be the first yogi…
If Sadhguru’s statements are based on ancient texts and folklore so are yours. Except for written texts or the smritis passed down during several chilliards, we cant find the roots. You seems to have been betrayed by Sadhguru or another hater of Sanatan Dharma. If you dont like this cult, kindly move on and focus somewhere else. I would stand by Sadhguru as he has not resorted to wrong practices like many other hypocrites nor his teachings ever had any ill words for other faith. You see other faith, they undermine Sanatan Dharma’s faith in order to make their thoughts look superior. He is way above all those.
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You are right. Neither Sadhguru nor Shanmugham has any conclusive proof about this. Each one is entitled to his own opinion. Moreover the very core of Sadhguru’s sayings is; don’t lookup to anybody and don’t look down upon anybody. Sadhguru also doesn’t force anyone to beieve what he says.
If you wish and believe that someone else is the Adiyogi, go about talking about him! You have the right to do so.
And it is unbecoming of any Isha volunteer to use words like ‘idiot’, ‘stupid’ which denotes intolerance. it indicates that such users haven’t imbibed even the basics of Sadhguru’s teachings.
It only seems to be your obsession with sadhguru. Leave to people what they want to understand. You can start ypur own blog/school/ ashram whatever……
There are people who blindly follow politician which is more harmful, you may think of enlightning them. Why only question sadhguru, you anyways read all his stuff?
what if he doesnt give credit what differnce does it make in his teachings or people getting benefits from his teachings??
Please dont confuse people with your writtings skills.
You do what best you can do instead of criticising …….
Yeah, if calling names is not the right thing to do, then making judgement of others spirituality, or realisation is also not the right thing to do.
If you are enlighten and spiritual go your own way,no one stops you.
A true realised one never judges others who are on spirituality.
Osho or Sadguru or any other realised one never judged each other. Everyone has their own way to help people, of course, there will be some differences and some similarities because everyone (Osho and Sadguru etc.) are paving the way for the ultimate Truth. Only that matters, not judging or analysing who is copying who??
Judgement on others realisation itself shows us where we stand in our spiritual path. The person who judges can’t be the enlighten one. He needs to work on it still.
Hope this sheds some light on you.
I have addressed all of what you said already and I can say that you have misunderstood. Watch this:
No one is perfect and perfection is impossible in our dimension because everything is fluid. If followers are ideal they would have no need to follow.
As for Sadguru, I think his biggest plus is his presentation and energy he conveys. I care less about his actual arguments.
Can organization become destructive?
No organization is immune to that on a time line dynamics.
Now you are talking psychology, and so you’re creating space for endless debate and it’s totally against what Darshan is. I just want put an end to end to it by recommending you this book. Please take your time to read it-
and then reply if you want.
I have already read the book … Let me let you once again, I have read probably most of the things that Sadhguru spoke in the last 10 years, including his book Mystic musings. And I was impressed as you are right now.
You haven’t addressed anything I said.. But I can understand, I would have responded the same way you do some 7-8 years ago.
If you can. read my post ‘Journey of the seeker’ with open-minded attention. I have addressed many things there..
Anyway, if Sadhguru is really enlightened, none of this is going to bother him. And I have always tried to take an unbiased stance when criticizing many of what he says. The reason people have problem with such things is because of the hardwired need that we have to follow, defend and get emotionally attached to an authority figure. And that is not in anyway related to enlightenment or spiritual path itself.
Darshan is not about another person. It is about you. The true Guru is inside you. The outer Guru is only an excuse. Everything is about you and you only..
I am not seeing this as a debate. For me, anything that comes out of me is just a natural response. I am completely aligned with and feel one with the rest of the universe with absolutely no conflicts. But If you feel that you are debating and it is distracting you from your sadhana, then thats good.. Let us stop this discussion and you proceed with your spiritual journey. And I wish you all the best!
Let me just end with one thing that Buddha said:
“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations. …
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But when, after observation and analysis, you find anything that agrees with reason, and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
– Buddha, Kalama Sutta
I agree with last paragraph.
The hurdles that are most often faced by spiritual seekers is of choice. You don’t believe anything until you experience it by yourself, that’s fine, but when you say he was right and he is wrong then it’s a problem.
Darshan is all about seeing the truth. I don’t think that anyone knows anything about the origin of yogic science except highlightened and mystical beings who has seen the truth. And yoga is not about Sanskrit language and it’s origin, but about Darshan. May be Sadhguru and people like him had had the Darshan of absolute emptiness and of the transmission left by Shiva at Kailash and at other sacred spaces.
And so I believe along with other thousands of spiritual seekers that whatever he says comes from his direct experience with Shiva. He also says that 50% of what he says and does is collaborated by Shiva himself. Sadhguru refer to him as his silent partner.
And I find so much logic in whatever he says than any other text.
What you said exactly reflects how my own mindset was few years before..
You said “I don’t think that anyone knows anything about the origin of yogic science except highlightened and mystical beings who has seen the truth. ”
I used to believe this as well because I was also completely convinced in the way he is explaining things… But later on, I found out many things. Thats a long story…
Whether it is really possible to know the past because of yogic sciences, I don’t know.. I have read the complete Patanjali Sutras and the book does say that many things are possible. But I don’t know yet. It might be possible or might not be. I have an open mind on that.
But can Sadhguru actually do this? I am questioning it because some of the things he said actually reveals that he cannot do it.
What if he is just saying most of the things based on what he has read from various books? Go through this answer that I gave in Quora:
See my friend whatever you said here and in the articles you refered, I agree with that. There is no way I can’t be. But I don’t support this.
I don’t have to do anything with who Sadhguru really is and with his personal life. He might be a robot, and forget about his enlightenment. What I know is that he’s a great story teller that appeals to the logical mind, he tells stories that had never been written or spoken because in the past such stories were never needed. In the past spiritual seekers used to speak stories as metaphors just like codes like brahma created all life forms on earth by getting infatuated by his own creation and there are many avatars of Shakti as kali, durga and so on. And all these metaphors seems appalling in modern time. They all seem rediculous. These netaphors never tell the truth directly, the truth is encoded within them. So we need people who can decode these metaphors and tell us the another story that young as well as intellectual mind can cherish. And this is where Sadhguru seems to fit in. And that’s why we don’t find proofs of what he said in sanskrit text.
I know that he does few mistakes when comes to give scientific explanation on spiritual process but I’m not sure. I am ignorant of his mistakes. He has said many times that he has never read anything as once in his talk with Deepak chopra, I knew that he’s lying but I ignored it. You said that he copies Osho without giving him credit, I agree but I’ll ignore it too. Why? because I personally don’t have to do anything with these guys. What I care about is Yoga and its future. Osho and sadhguru are just mere different chapters in the great book of yoga, some paragraphs can be here and there to make a chapter look nice and appealing but they all be there in a single book.
Do you know there is another world emerging right now called Pschedelics. And these are said to induce mystical and spiritual experience and leaves a long lasting impact on mind and cures mental illnesses. Some western philosophers like Jason Silva working and spreading great awareness about its usage and benefits and completely repels yoga and also say that they don’t need yoga as they say it is traditional to what psychedelics are. And a large population of young as well as old people begin taking micro doses of psychedelics on regular basis. Some groups of people use both micro dosing as well as yoga. And there numbers are exponentially increasing. And there is third population of people like us who only do yoga if you already don’t take psychedelics. And it worries me and may be OSHO and sadhguru too as they said LSD drugs don’t induce experience better than yoga. But psychedecs evolve and yoga doesn’t but yogic stories can evolve, we can tell the stories about what yoga can do by reaching to its ultimate stages.
Suppose if we didn’t have people like OSHO, sadhguru and Ramadev baba who penetrated well among large population of the world and made them realize the importance of yoga which they otherwise would never realize, what would be the present of yoga would be?
Some western neuroscientists found a hormone called Anandamide named after the word Ananda(absolute ecstasy) which we release during blissful experiences. According to them this is the highest level of blissful experience human is capable of having.
There is another group of scientists and philosopher working on the root of subjective experience. Among them David charmers say that consciousness is fundamental force of universe which makes human experience their mental contents. Another scientist called Rupert Sheldrake proposed a theory of morphic field which states that all living things are organized by a coherent field which also include human thoughts and emotions and these fields have inherent qualities means they have memory of their own. I doubt that morphic field theory is what we call chitta and karma and Rupert has just imitated by telling a different story that appeals to the logical mind without stating anything about yoga, now this is something we can fight for. But we in Bharat always take Yogic processes for granted. Why can’t our scientists and yogis themselves put forward theories on mystical experience like transmission between a yogi and dhyanlinga. We know that transmission is not just a joke, there is an immense possibility for scientific exploration. But we always take such processes for granted and this is what ceasing the scientific flow of yoga among people. Quantum physics is full of such ideas that can’t be proven easily, but physicists are always open to such ideas.
So instead of arguing over someone’s credibility in the great book of yoga, why don’t you and we add a new mind boggling chapter to it and start decoding the meaning behind what’s in there already. This is how our great Vedas and scriptures are made, isn’t it? You will always find some overlap between different parts of the Vedas. Let the evolution of yoga continue that has been stagnant for the last few thousands years but this time this evolution should be scientific too.
So let these gurus do their best in spreading yoga across the globe and get people excited about it even if it seems pseudoscientific to us because such gurus are very few or only one in a very long time. If a school kid got excited about yoga just because of Sadhguru and when he reads these articles of yours and watched those interviews on television, now what? I know very well you don’t intend to do so. Sadhguru is the most easily accessible living guru in the world right now and all his asylums and foundations with teaching facilities are there because our gods left nothing behind except written text. He is doing a rally for rivers that no one previously thought about, ideas about new teaching ways, about business that will do good all from top to down and so much more. He has done so much good in the world that I have never seen any guru has ever done before, they all just remained yogi. Now it shouldn’t bother us whether this robot is enlightened or not and if it is, we’ll never know that but we can put forward some theories just like David charmers, Rupert sheldrake and all those quantum physicists did.
Let these gurus do their best and let’s do our best in expanding yoga not just spreading.
You have talked about so many things here.. I agree with a few of them but not everything.. What I am trying to do here is just to make the readers to see through the bias and not to take everything blindly.
My motivation for writing some articles in this blog are listed here:
1) Science and spirituality should be bridged. A collaboration of spirituality and science can do a lot more than what is being done now by Gurus.. In this century, it is the best way to go.
2) No human being is infallible. If someone is giving you a technique or method to help you towards your spiritual growth, trying it out doesn’t do any harm; But when you take everything that person says as true just because the methods he is giving is working for you in someway, then it is more likely that you are stuck where you are in the spiritual path. At the end of the day, it is you who walk the path and you have to follow your own light. True Sadhguru is inside you, in fact it is You!
Finally here is a Zen Koan for you to look up and ponder over; And it is for everyone who reads this post:
If you meet the Buddha, kill him. (逢佛殺佛)
You write these articles just to attract audience and to show your frustration about your failed career.
You blame Sadhguru so much just because he didn’t give credit to OSHO on using his few lines. All you write is bullshit. May be it’s because of the psychology books that you have been eating. I have read few articles in the past that psychologist are among the highest having mental disorders and OSHO also said it in one of his talks. I went through some of your articles, and I noticed that there is nothing scientific and spiritual about them as you have stated above, they are full of failed trials, lurked frustration, blame, judgement and these articles appeared quite destimulating. I see a man who seems frustrated because he couldn’t get what he supposed to get through spiritual practices and now start showing his frustration through these articles by blaming others whose methods didn’t workout for him. You seem a man whose meditation is happening inside his stomach, a man who hides his weaknesses through psychological explanations. You are a straw man, coldblooded one.
I shouldn’t have wasted my time. Your articles won’t help anyone in any way. Go and find a job.
I don’t have any frustrations at all about anything from my past. And I don’t think about past at all. Let us not get into any personal attacks.. I am not interested in engaging personal attacks or proving whether I am frustrated or peaceful..
Criticism is the essence of knowledge and needs to be held within the brink. Getting emotional over trifle matters need to be arrested. By age I am elderly but by Vedic knowledge still a novice.By reading subjects as above I am amassing volume of information derived from the pros and cons discussed. Please keep it healthy. Thank you. F.N.I. I am a retired Malaysian Government Officer.
thank you for your comments sir… I agree..
Your title is ‘Sadhguru’s nonsense?’ – You are taking classes to everybody not to use words stupid, idiot. And you are not interested in personal attacks…it’s really funny. Too much mindfullness, please stop all your bullshit and try to meditate. When you really realized and people around you without a single word, that your very presence make them to go beyond their physical limitations, you can speak all this rubbish. Till then better to be quiet and walk the path. You speak too much about Osho…you think you can ever understand who Osho is through his books. If you think you can understand then I am sorry i have to use that word, you should be stupid. Don’t do this to yourself. Oh…you don’t like advices but all your blogs are just advices and instructions of what Sadhguru followers should do, shouldn’t do. Also somebody saying you as stupid, idiot – don’t take that as personal attacks, that could be true. Possibly they could be seeing few of your qualities that you yourself not able to see. Take it as a comment. And look into yourself and without bias read all your blogs once again, you might realize that what they are saying is true. Just for your introspection i want to give one example, your arguments was based on one unknown guy who wrote book 1700 years about a Guru and his 8 disciples. You don’t even know who that guy is, you never experienced him, he never transformed your life but you hold that strong because it was 1700 years old. Like that there are plenty of foolish arguments through out. Need not to reply me immediately take your own time. Have a break for a month, without a word be in silence, do your sadhana, and look into yourself and without bias read all your blogs once again, you might realize that what they are saying is true.
Do you know the meaning of the word nonsense? Something that doesn’t make sense is nonsense… There is a different between saying ‘what you say doesn’t make sense’ and ‘you are an idiot’.. The first is about a particular statement and the second is a personal attack…
You have also written ‘ Too much mindfulness, please stop all your bullshit and try to meditate.’,, Do you know anything about me and my life? Do you have a single idea about my life for the past 35 years? Who told you that I did not meditate? And do you know what mindfulness is in the first place? (because you have written ‘too much mindfulness’, )
Don’t make quick assumptions and conclusions about a person without knowing about the person…
You said ‘Also somebody saying you as stupid, idiot – don’t take that as personal attacks, that could be true’.. I have not written about people calling ‘me’ as stupid.. Forget about me… Read that post again, I am talking about people calling everyone as stupid and engaging in personal attacks.
You said ‘your arguments was based on one unknown guy who wrote book 1700 years about a Guru and his 8 disciples’.. Then who is your argument based on? You just heard someone say something and believed that it is true…
My point is, no one can be certain about the past… Probably the story of nandhinatha could be wrong and something like that never happened. But then you can use the same logic for what Sadhguru says too…I have already explained in the post as well in the comments very elaborately…
Since you made a lot of assumptions about me without knowing me, go through this post: https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/2017/05/10/the-journey-of-a-seeker-my-story/ …
Just google ‘stupid’ it says the meaning – lacking intelligence or common sense. I am saying there is no intelligence in what you are speaking, you are just trying to be too smart. So you first understand stupid is not bad word. As I said they are pointing your quality, just consider that seriously that could be true. If no one certain about past then all your blog could be closed in 2 lines “Sadhguru says this…I don’t know whether it is true or not. Neither I believe nor I disbelieve it” That’s it. But you won’t do that, you have to show your smartness, you have to vomit all the nonsense that you have read. Sorry man, life is like this only. If you throw wonderful things around you, you are wonderful man. If you through stupidity, you are stupid. You might be having divine within you but what you throw out decides who you are. If you think anybody can understand or know you by reading 10 para biography written by yourself then its absolute stupidity. You think you only have rights to call someone nonsense, other people also have their rights, let them exercise it. And Javed, he is more than stupid or idiot, leave his stupid logic, he is not even willing to listen, he just try to ridicule things. So he got what he deserved. People are just helping him, pointing him and to look at his stupidity. So you need not to worry about him. It’s time for you to work about yourself. Sitting with closed eyes need not be a meditation. That’s why I asked you to MEDITATE. If you were really meditating this stupidity to show yourself as SMART would have gone. More than that don’t call all your bullshit as Science or Logic. What you speak is rudimentary logic could be compared to Communist or Dravidian groups logic.
If no one can be certain about past, then what makes you to think Sadhguru can be so certain about it?
I can see the problem here.. Your whole conclusion about me is formed because I have criticized Sadhguru and said that his statements don’t make sense.
You said you have the rights to state your opinions. Fine, you have done that and I have stated mine. So, let us end this discussion here.
Neither you (Shanmugam) nor he took the last para (“let us end …”) seriously!
I was replying to the recent comment but I am not sure if the recent comment was approved, after I clicked ‘approve’ :).. I just did that again and now the order of comments should be alright..
There are always new comments in this post. But I have been thinking about creating a ‘canned’ reply for new comments asking the same questions and urge them to read other posts of this blog before coming to conclusions… I can also disable further comments on this post but I don’t want to do that.
Sorry, I didn’t check the dates. Your present policy is okay.
This item gets a lot more attention than the others, some of which are far more important!
HE might know it, who knows? Don’t believe or disbelieve, that’s all I am saying. Don’t try to draw conclusions with your bullshits, that you gathered from books. If you had insight that he is wrong then share with whole world. Otherwise you should shut up as per your logic. Because you are advising everybody that they should not speak what they didn’t experience. What makes Sadhguru is not what he speaks, speech is only for stupids who couldn’t experience his presence. People experienced Sadhguru don’t care what HE speaks, because it doesn’t matter. Whoever tasting laddu, not interested in discourses about Laddu. Try to eat laddu, don’t exhaust your whole life in speaking about laddu. All the speech, infrastructures, advertisements and everything is to attract you towards laddu, your job is to just eat it when somebody offers you. Nobody interested in your discourses, whether you had laddu or not, that’s the whole point. If you are sincere or true within yourself, you should have said only one thing, that what you experienced with HIM. Whether you experienced Bliss or only backpain, that’s all you could share because that is only true for you. All other things are just rubbish collected from various trash bins. Conclusions about you? That’s why I told you to read your blogs without bias, it’s full of your conclusions with stupid logic, your blog is full of your nonsense. You can’t see it now because you invested so much on it. Sit back for a month, do your sadhana. Then nobody need to say you stupid, you will know by yourself. Do something sensible for yourself.
Dont confuse experience of bliss with some historical knowledge.. Sadhguru is not a historian. History has its own method called historical method.
Just because someone gets enlightened, it doesn’t mean he will become omniscient.. It doesn’t mean he will know everything from the past. If someone claims so, it is a strong indication that the person is faking enlightenment..
You said ‘Don’t try to draw conclusions with your bullshits, that you gathered from books.’.. How is anyone supposed to know any historical information without reading books? Are you kidding? Again, you are confusing between objective and subjective knowledge.. If you want to know your real nature, you have to meditate. But if you want to know about Mahatma Gandhi, you have to read an authentic book or get the information from a trustable resource..
There is a reason why I asked you to read my spiritual journey. From the beginning, you have been asking me to meditate, without having any idea about my life. I forgot the whole world for nearly three years after I immersed myself in meditation. My sadhana was a lifelong sadhana, it is not a joke. It was a problem of life and death.
From the beginning, you have are not on speaking terms but instead you have been engaging in personal attacks. You don’t want to have a conversation but you just want to fight.You don’t want to refute any of my arguments with valid points. Ever heard of ad hominem? Take your time, Google it and understand what it means. Because all of your comments are only filled with ad hominem. The main reason why you do this is because this post criticizes Sadhguru’s statements about Adiyogi. You believe that Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev cannot be and never be wrong in anything and what he says is absolutely right.
Your only logic is this: If Sadhguru says something, then it is right.. If anyone finds anything wrong in what Sadhguru says, then that person is not only an idiot but whatever he says is complete bullshit!
But what people like you don’t understand is, this blind following of a person and letting their emotions completely hijack their intelligence is what motivated me to write many of my recent posts regarding Sadhguru in the first place. Because, I was also a blind believer of Sadhguru, for 13 years! Please read the previous sentence one more time: not for one year, not for three years, for thirteen years.. I trusted that everything he says either comes after careful consideration or some kind of mystical vision. I myself have fought with many people and defended him. Just like a boy who is on a crazy and insane love with a girl, I was crazy about Sadhguru and Isha foundation.
When I write this, my mind remembers many things that happened in the past. I remember the day when I went running like a crazy man, running as fast as I could, from the bus stand near Isha yoga centre to Adiyogi alayam inside the Ashram, because I want to sit in the front row for Sadhguru’s satsang and I didn’t want to be even a single minute late; I remember the day when I got angry on my sister for calling Sadhguru an ‘idiot’ and stopped speaking with her; I remember the day when I shouted in my office, in front of about 90 people who were my colleagues and said ‘No one is qualified to talk against Sadhguru’, when someone asked me about certain allegations against Sadhguru; I remember the day when I insisted my relatives to buy cereals and pickles from the shop inside the ashram because the pack of every product says that a certain percentage of the price goes to charity to help poor people. I remember the day when I got angry with my father when he said “Remove that snake ring from your finger, it will prevent you from having a child. If you really consider me as your father, remove it!”.. I remember the day when I got a permanent tattoo of a linga in my shoulders, out of my love towards Dhyanalinga. I remember the day when I decided to name my son ‘lingesh’. I remember the day when I have to convince my wife to buy linga bhairavi gudi and dhyanalinga yantra for about Rs.33,000.
I went through a transformation myself in 2014. That is something that I have covered in detail in many posts. That is when I forgot about the whole world and just lived my life with full involvement, with no conflicts and with absolute peace for three years. There were a few difficulties but the whole three years passed like a blissful dream overall.
It is only in the last few months, I was able to completely see through my beliefs. And I was able to understand the reality of Sadhguru. Whatever I am doing right now is just the way my life expresses itself. Let me repeat Osho’s words here just like Sadhguru does: don’t believe me, don’t disbelieve me! You have no idea about the way I function in the world.. And, you have no idea that you yourself are bringing down the reputation of Isha by giving completely fallacious arguments filled with ad hominem attacks.
Someone else asked me before if I have some agenda and asked about the reason why I write certain posts. Let me just state here the reply I gave him: My mission is to create awareness to bridge science and spirituality, to raise the level of skepticism in people who read my posts, to stop blind followings, to stop abusive comments made by some Isha followers and other groups on the internet, to stop the endless debates between science and spirituality and to prevent misuse and abuse done in the name of ‘spiritual enlightenment’ in the future generations.
Sorry I thought only you are stupid, but it seems it comes hereditary. Because you mentioned that your father said “Remove that snake ring from your finger, it will prevent you from having a child. If you really consider me as your father, remove it!”… I don’t know how a ring going to stop you having child, even if you don’t have your finger or hand you could still have child. I don’t want to comment about your sister, but I could guess why she said such things, could be simple logic, because you supported somebody then she thought he could also be stupid. Ok jokes apart. Sadhguru is not historian, omniscient, did anyone claimed HE is? I am just saying even you or me don’t know whether what he is true or not, that’s why I said you don’t believe or disbelieve it. Don’t draw conclusions. You believed him in the past, now you are disbelieving him. Because you are so limited that you could be only in one of this condition. Just be open and see you don’t know, that’s it, then all this bullshit is not needed. HE gave methods whether it is working or not, that’s the question. Whether HIS presence make you cross your physical and mental limitations, that’s all the question is. Because you couldn’t find what HE said in few AUTHENTIC books wrote by few AUTHENTIC people, you need not to be stupid and come to some idiotic conclusion. What is the most AUTHENTIC books you are referring here to say Sadhguru’s claim is wrong? And about my personal attack, ad hominem cryings – this is my answer. Accidentally when I read your first blog…actually I wanted to give you point by point rebuttal. But when I read other blogs of you, other than your bio-data everything else is just bullshit, to the core. At least it will take a week for me to give you counter for all your bullshit and it’s unnecessary waste of time. So I am giving you this open challenge, paste any 2 para of your blog here, I cold refute your bullshit with valid points. You can paste anything because I see all your blog is just bullshit. But please don’t put your fancy claims like you forgot the whole world for 3 years. What you forgot? Did you forgot to have food or you forgot to pee? If it is so you wouldn’t be writing these stupid blogs, you would have been doing some sensible things. You had food and everything and forgot about people around you, that is not spirituality, that means you are mentally sick and you are living in your own stupid world. That’s why I am saying you are invested too much in your nonsense, try to come out of this sickness. If you don’t believe what I say, try this, next three days don’t eat, don’t pee, don’t speak, just try to sit and meditate in one place. Within 24 hours you would know how limited stupid you are. OH you and your stupid so-called spiritual journey, come on man, please have some sense, read it without bias once again, it is height of stupidity. You are going against your own words in every 10 lines. Drop this nonsense for your own well being.
First you talked only about me, and now you are talking about my family. This is getting beyond the limit. You are probably working or volunteering for Isha Foundation, aren’t you? The i.p address 18.104.22.168 that you are commenting from belongs to Isha foundation. I am mentioning it here so that the readers of these comments will know this.
There is a common superstition that is prevalent in South India. People say that wearing a snake ring can stop someone from having a child. That is what my father was talking about.I agree, that is nonsense. But that doesn’t mean that my father is stupid. A majority of Indians believe in something, even if it seems totally nonsense. But you are crossing your limit here, mind your words…
Look, I already told you that let us stop this discussion (‘fight’ actually) because you don’t seem to understand what I am really saying. What is the whole point of you commenting here everyday and what are you trying to achieve?
The story of Adhiyogi that Sadhguru is giving is a cocktail version combining everything that is said about Shiva. I have clearly written about the topic, starting from the origin of the word ‘Shiva’. If someone is saying something, there should be some basis to that. What source did Sadhguru give for his claim that Shiva was a human yogi, who married a human yogini called Parvathi and gave birth to two yogis: Ganesha and Skandha.. I am not making an extraordinary claim, I am just saying that mythology is mythology. I can also come up with a story by combining some mythological stories from Vishnu purana, link it to another historical story of a different mortal man and claim that this man Vishnu is actually a yogi who walked on this planet 21,ooo years ago. Will that make any sense? Is it too difficult to come up with such a story?
Do you mean to say no one should question what Sadhguru says?
I know.. You will keep repeating his quote ‘Don’t believe me, don’t disbelieve me’… Sadhguru himself is repeating Osho here. But when Osho said ‘Don’t believe me, don’t disbelieve me’, he was only talking about his own spiritual experience. He himself said that he was completely fallible and whatever he said might not be factually correct.
Many beliefs are formed unconsciously in the passage of time. Even if you decide not to blindly believe in something, when you hear certain things over and over again without questioning it, you will start believing it is true.When I said I was a blind believer, I meant that I had a trust that Sadhguru was not making up such stories.
When someone says ‘don’t believe me, don’t disbelieve me’, he is essentially saying that ‘be skeptical but at the same time be open minded and also give me the benefit of doubt’.. I agree with this statement no matter who says it, because that is an attitude that anyone seeking any kind of knowledge should have. And I did give him the benefit of doubt for 13 years. But 13 years is very long and I have gone through many things which obviously showed me that all that Sadhguru says is not true. I would have agreed with many things you said if you had told me 5 or 10 years ago.. But you keep forgetting one important factor, a four letter word called ‘TIME’… Many things happen over the passage of time: views of the person changes, experience about the world increases, his attitude about the world changes. If the same person who was attached to Sadhguru for about 13 years is criticizing Sadhguru’s statements, there should be some reason. You can’t really understand that reason completely unless you walk in his shoes and have taken every step he took.All I can do is point out a few examples which are obvious because it is impossible to transfer the insight I got about many things over the years to you.
By criticizing what Sadhguru says about certain things, I am not putting him down completely..If you tell me Sadhguru is insightful man and a great orator, I would agree.; If you tell me doing Isha yoga programs can be life changing, I would agree.. But if you tell me something is true just because Sadhguru says it is true, then sorry.
When I said I forgot the world, I didn’t mean that I became immobile. As I said, I have already explained everything in my posts.
Also, I see that you might have misunderstood something. When I said no one is 100% certain about the past, it means that the only resources we have to know about the past is things like the books written in the past, archaeological evidence etc. We reconstruct the past with historical method using the resources we have. But we don’t really know exactly how things happened and can’t be 100% sure about everything. We (when I say we, I am talking about the entire mankind) take those pieces of resources, try to connect the dots and come up with the best guess. You yourself agree that Sadhguru is not a historian. But he talks about the life of Adiyogi with certainty. I am just questioning that certainty, thats all!
I have my own personal blog and I write these posts to express my ideas. I am living in independent India where I have the freedom of expressing my views and engage in healthy criticism. What is bothering you so much about it to come and comment here everyday? You already mentioned that you didn’t want refute my points because that is an unnecessary waste of time. Then why are you even commenting here in the first place? Look at all the above comment of yours and see how much you have typed.
I am curious. How long has it been since you came to know about Sadhguru and Isha foundation? How many Isha programs have you done and what are they? And how old are you?
A few pointings.. call them coincidences or.. as you wish… you might start connecting dots… 🙂
– According to one Puranic astronomical estimate, the four Yuga have the following durations: Satya Yuga equals 4800 years, Treta Yuga equals 3600 years, Dvapara Yuga equals 2400 years, Kali Yuga equals 1200 years
– The late 4th millennium date has a precedent in the calculation of the Kaliyuga epoch, based on planetary conjunctions, by Aryabhata (6th century)
– Aryabhatta’s date of February 18 3102 BCE for Mahābhārata war has become widespread in Indian tradition. Some sources mark this as the disappearance of Krishna from earth
– Agastya appears in numerous itihasas and puranas including the major Ramayana and Mahabharata. Some list him as one of the Saptarishi (seven great rishi). Some accounts say he lived for 4,800 years
– According to Hindu tradition, Ramayana takes place during a period of time known as Treta Yuga
– Over 15,000 years ago, Adiyogi appeared in the upper regions of the Himalayas
Add them all together and this is the logical conclusion that starts to appear: 15.000 years ago (middle of “golden age” or Satya Yuga) a “greatest” sage appears. He gives the wisdom to Agastya that lives until the begining of Treta Yuga spreading this knowledge. Ramayana from Treta Yuga and Mahābhārata from end of Dvapara Yuga both tell about Agastya. Kali yuga begins and humanity is in total darkness. It ends 2500 yrs ago when Buddha and the Christ appear, boosting the humanity spiritual evoution into the new Dvapara Yuga, that is about to end in a few decades. From here on, a new Treta Yuga is about to begin and we might witness this beginning in the century to come… 😉
See this also: https://youtu.be/DhyzKzx03VU?t=23m
Thank you… But this really doesn’t say much about Sadhguru’s story of Adiyogi though.
But I agree that according to the Yuga theory, 15,000 years ago was sometime in Sathya Yuga. I have also written an answer regarding this in Quora and I have included a detailed explanation in at the bottom of this comment:
This only means one thing: Sadhguru simply chose Adiyogi’s time to be 15,000 years ago because for him it makes sense to place his time sometime during Sathya yuga. Or it could have been even a coincidence.
But if you actually look at the puranic stories, there are no consistency in any them. If you just take Agasthya alone for example, there are countless inconsistent mentions about Agasthya in Puranas. It is the same with the stories of Shiva, Skandha and Ganesha. In Tamil Nadu, a whole purana called Thiruvillayadal purana shows that Shiva was actually a king who ruled Madurai.
The Sanskrit word for history is ‘Ithihasa’… There are only two books which are called as ithihasa: Ramayana and Mahabharata, because they are based on historical information (even though the stories might have been modified to add some juice and fantasy to the literature).
Indians were experts in creating mythological stories. You may be surprised to hear that Jataka tales, mythical stories about past lives of Buddha consider Agastya as one of Buddha’s past lives. At the same time, Agasthya himself was called as Shiva’s incarnation, in certain sects. Jataka tales themselves include tales where animals spoke to each other just like human beings. This itself shows that Jataka tales were imaginary tales. (But Sadhguru may say that they were animal yogis).
Even a lot of mystics in India have the opinion that mythology are just stories created to convey certain things symbolically. For example, the churning of milky ocean is considered to be a symbolism of churning our own minds (self inquiry).
Because of inconsistencies, contradictions, exaggerations, flattery of a particular deity etc, no one would rely on puranas for historical information. They can indirectly indicate a few things but not a direct, reliable source of historical information.
There is another problem with puranas and Indian literature in general: There are always later interpolations.
Anyway, here is the explanation about yugas, that I wrote in Quora:
There are two scriptures which talk about how to calculate Yugas..
Both are contradictory.. Sadhguru has calculated according to manusmrti, which is the least popular own, but more accurate and fits relatively close with the modern astronomical calculation of one full precession of the equinox… Swami Yukteswar Giri has also calculated it according to manusmrti and said that we are no longer living in Kaliyuga..
According to Manusmrti, the lengths are 4800 years + 3600 years + 2400 years + 1200 years, for a total of 12,000 years for one arc, or 24,000 years to complete the cycle, which is approximately one precession of the equinox. These 4 yugas follow a timeline ratio of (4:3:2:1).
According to Srimad Bhagavatam, the Yugas are much longer, using a divine year in which one day is equal to one human year, thus:
one year of the demigods is equal to 360 years of the human beings. The duration of the Satya-yuga is therefore 4,800 x 360, or 1,728,000 years. The duration of the Tretā-yuga is 3,600 x 360, or 1,296,000 years. The duration of the Dvāpara-yuga is 2,400 x 360, or 864,000 years
The version of manusmrti seems to much reasonable to me.. While the long yuga count is the most popular, it does not correlate to any known celestial motion found in the Astronomical Almanac. The value of 24,000 years (calculation according to manusmrti) fits relatively close with the modern astronomical calculation of one full precession of the equinox, which takes 25,772 years…
Thank you for your extensive reply. You got the point about Adiyogi and Sathya yuga. And and you clearly know history stuff a lot more than I am willing to research for the moment…
In the end, it adds up to the pint of believing. Believing one version or another, one mode of calculating or another. And I would rather leave it just be until I can know for sure… if ever..
I’d rather spend my time practicing then extending the historical research. it’s much more productive for me. BTW, have you ever heard about Michael Langford ? He insists we should ignore the stories… 😉
This one might be of help: https://albigen.com/uarelove/most_rapid/contents.htm
yes, I completely agree with what you said.. for anyone whose main goal is liberation, such historical details are not important.. As I have mentioned in the comments. no one can be 100% sure about the past anyway, they can come up with best guesses depending on the sources which are available.
For me, as I have mentioned in my story, there is nothing I can do further, there is no motivation to practice anything anymore, because my seeking has ended. I have to flow with the tide for the rest of my life.. life is completely natural and devoid of conflicts, without wishing for the things to be different from the way they are..
But I have started writing my blog because I wanted to document things that happened in life and make it available online. I also write about things which played important role in my life. And just because spiritual seekers consider history, science or etymology unimportant, it doesn’t mean that corruption of knowledge in these fields should be allowed. because, these are important for somebody else. Before I wrote this article, I googled for ‘shiva that which is not’ and I got tons of results. All of them were pages that were just repeating what Sadhguru says. This is the power of authority. People can believe in anything that an authority says. But this is actually a corruption of knowledge in the field of sanskrit etymology. Yes, you and me don’t care about it but there are other people who care.
Oh man you found out the truth, actually it’s not somebody from Isha Foundation, it’s Sadhguru himself replying you. Obviously I am Isha Volunteer, but I don’t know when my computer become Isha Foundation’s. Ok why I am coming everyday, there was a friend of mine just like you, read all the Osho, JK, Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, Ramana and hundred more. He gone through some spiritual experience, then he started believing that he got enlightened. He started doing and speaking all kind of rubbish and I am seeing him now what he become. You are just going straight in his way, the way of madness. Too much smartness will never bring clarity. Just drop your nonsense. If you are sitting in a place without physical limitations is not immobility. If you understand that’s immobility, you are stupid, what else to say. The TIME should have been used to evolve yourself, not your ideas, conclusions and other stupidity. Within these 13 years you should have evolved into a man that if you walk, people unknowingly bowing down to you, that’s evolution. You comfortably forgot the open challenge that I gave you. That’s okay, I expected that. About Independent India, if you have rights to say your views, I thought I also can express my views. That’s why you kept comment section right? Not many times in your life that you will get people to tell you that you are doing stupidity and go in the right way. Please use this opportunity to look into yourself and come out of this madness.
sadangadivedo mukhe shastravidya
kavitvadi gadyam supadyam karoti |
manashcenna lagnam guroranghripadme
tatah kim tatah kim tatah kim tatah kim ||
The Vedas with their six limbs and the knowledge of all sciences may be on one’s lips; one may possess the poetic gift and may compose fine prose and poetry; but if one’s mind be not centred upon the lotus feet of the Guru, what then, what then, what then?
If you want to stop discussion it’s very simple, just stop replying me. I am just responding to you. If you do so I promise this is my last comment, I will check tonight once again if nothing is there, I will never come back. I will remove you from my bookmarks. Write whatever nonsense you want to write in your blogs, who cares. Have sensible and joyful life, bye.
More cases of devotitis as Swami Dayananda called it. Some can be cured, some can’t. Be careful to avoid giving them a chance to rant!
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I think you made a mistake when you used the word “nonsense”. You gave people a chance to rant! Incurable devotitis.
haha.. yes 🙂 it is the word ‘nonsense’ he can’t tolerate..
No need to argue about past events. No one can really know the exact dates & events that took place in ancient India. We should focus on extracting meaningful knowledge that is been conveyed. I don’t care who is Adiyogi or Shiva. All that matters to me is what they said.
Good analysis. It is always important to be aware of the difference between myth and history and we should be careful not to confuse the two.
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Hi there. If I may share a little. Shiva’s “highest form” is commonly known and described to be as formless.
“The five mantras that constitute Shiva’s body are Sadyojaata, Vaamadeva, Aghora, Tatpurusha and Eesaana. Eesaana is Shiva not visible to the human eye…” ~http://veda.wikidot.com/shiva
“The name Ishan is also mentioned in Shiva Mahapurana as one of five names of the god (Shiva). Īśāna has its roots in the word “ish”, which means the invisible power that governs the universe. The wielder of this power, or this power itself, is “Īśāna”” ~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishana
“There are some versus in Sanskrit in which Shiva’s description is so beautiful.
‘Namami-shamishan nirvan roopam, vibhum vyapakam brahma-ved swaroopam. Nijam nirgunam nirvikalpam niriham chidakashmakashvasam bhajeham.’
(Opening verses of the Rudrashtakam – An Ode sung in the glory of Lord Shiva, by Shri Goswami Tulsidas)
It is the lord, it is the most powerful, it is all over, spread everywhere. There is no place that it is not. It is that space, that consciousness where all the knowledge is present. It was never born and it has no attributes. It is a state of Samadhi where there is nothing, just the inner sky of consciousness. That is what is Shiva.” ~https://www.artofliving.org/what-is-shiva
Therefore, one must understand when Sadhguru explains how on one part, Shiva means “that which is not,” he is speaking about Shiva’s formless aspect. In that aspect, Shiva, “that which is not,” is a representation of or a finger pointing to the Ultimate Reality. This is very important understanding for one’s spiritual path. That is why Sadhguru says on one part Shiva means that which is not.
On the historical aspect of Shiva, I do not know, nor have I done any research to exchange ideas.
About your comment regarding giving credit to Osho. All who become Enlightened or Self-Realized are not the same nor are they different. They come to the ultimate reality of advaita, or non-duality. A devotee asks Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi:
“D.: If there be a hundred Self-realised men will it not be to the greater
benefit of the world?
M.: When you say ‘Self’ you refer to the unlimited, but when you add
‘men’ to it, you limit the meaning. There is only one Infinite Self.”
If that is so, then there is no surprise that those who have come to Self-Realization will have the same wisdom and perception as previous sages, for they are no longer individual. I’m not sure if you have ever watched Avatar the Last Airbender, but I would say it’s kind of like the Avatar in that show. The main character has reincarnated for many lives. Each time born as a different person, but if able to access the “Avatar State,” the Avatar is able to recollect wisdom from his past innumerable lives.”
Just my thoughts to share. Thanks for reading.
James, go through the comments of this post; I have already addressed everything you said. Regarding Sadhguru and Osho, read this: https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/2017/02/07/sadhguru-on-osho-the-two-diamonds-to-discover-your-inner-self/ Make sure you read the complete post
First of all this blog that you have posted so deliberately opposing sadhguru …is just nonsense. I am not a follower of anyone..But come to know ,reading your blog makes me tell you that your brain ,mind or whatsoever you have is just full of crap ..I’ll tell your one thing to do ..take some time away from all of this things that you do and spend some quality time with yourself and ask yourself at once .Here, you’re clearly stating that he don’t know anything about shiva and all the Vedic stuff as far I know you too don’t know a single thing about this things yourself ..Writing this blog by collecting the info from internet isn’t going to make any difference my friend .Just look at what you are arguing. ..There are millions of people who claim that they know the god ..but my friend life itself is a god if you’re dead you won’t be able to point your finger is to who god is and who isnt. First stop and learn something about yourself is to how you really are falling into this delusional thoughts of yours that doesn’t even matters to this world . Just stop this bullshit of yours man and get it together and find something useful to do .
Tushar, I am absolutely happy, peaceful, fulfilled and enjoy every single thing I do, including writing on my blog.. And every single comment that I receive from people like you adds credibility to what I have written in some of my posts.. So, thank you for that and have a good day 🙂
He make me realize that I really do not know , there was tears in my eyes, i experience this pain during BSP program, You can spend times in stories from many sources, but if we experience I do not know every story is use less, Sadhguru is using stories for some purpose, that is not for our/your investigation, he is using stories, mantras, breath, thoughts,postures, poems, neem, turmeric, honey, lemon, everything for some purpose, he know best use of every material, and the impact of every material is to come out from our rubbish and experience the divine, your are investigating stories may be you are right what will it do for us, You know what he says ” Truth is not in the word you speak, it is the way how you hold the life”, so he is focused in giving us the Technics, which is useful for us only,
Interesting Article. According to my experience when it comes to history or historical figures if you go by whats been written in the past, there has always been debates on which is true and which is false, either it is recorded history or over glorified. But what sadhguru says is, he has not read any scriptures and everything that has happened from the day of creation happened until now is there to be perceived. What we require is an enhanced perception (beyond the physical) to be receptive to this. and he says there are methods to get to that level of perception and each and every human being is capable of doing this. Sounds appealing to a logical mind. Only way to know if its true or not is by putting yourself into test, if you are WILLING to. there is no other way.
Intikhab… I used to consider what you said for over 12 years… I am extremely open-minded. But after seeing so many inconsistencies and clear indication that Sadhguru is lying a lot (really a lot), I know for sure that Sadhguru is one big liar.. But don’t believe me, and don’t disbelieve me either… Before you come to a conclusion, check out some other posts in my blog and read them whenever you have time. You may understand what I mean… (I know Sadhguru for 15 years.. Just 3 years before, I would have said the same thing that you said.)
Thanks a lot for the much researched article. I think it will help if you can give citations as well.
Hi, You can read my Quora answer here: https://www.quora.com/Who-taught-yoga-to-Adiyogi-according-to-Sadhguru/answer/Shanmugam-P-12 It has citations and more details..
What a waste of time. You could have spent this time for something creative.
hi I wanted to discuss with you regarding this matter. please contact me
That is the deep beauty of Indian Culture/Tradition, we never schooled using ‘Hinduism’ for lack of words to group it all. And allowed people or gave the liberty to people to creatively story tell to the age, audience, time and situation (Just like enlightened beings talks or silence is appropriate for the time /age and audience) as suited, which is why we have so many versions of the stories in each and every language and each influenced by the locals and yet kept the inner core message intact. And, I see many blames govt for not making it school syllabus (Indic Renaissance), I on the other hand think of it as a blessing in disguise. If it was schooled, common uneducated person would not have guts to add enhance or delete and talk about it, like say if someone was asked about Einstein’s Theory of Relativity, you would say only if you are well learned, if you slightly know you would simply keep quite and if you are reasonably okay, you would refer and then get back. But in our culture the story telling was the biggest strength and it has the knack of not losing the core and passing it easily down the generations. Regardless of all the invasion and destruction etc. everything is still alive just like enlightened beings energies are still alive, is because of that freedom inherent in our culture.
Coming to credits: Like Osho once mentioned when he talked about Ramana Maharishi, no one (Enlightened Beings) owes anything to anyone. With deepest pranams to all Thirumular, Osho (One of the fearless gurus of all times) etc.
The affairs of the world will go on forever, do not delay the practice of meditation. Once you have met with the profound instructions from a meditation master, with single pointed determination, set about realizing the Truth. ~Milarepa
Thank you for your comment. There is a difference between saying a story and claiming a story to be history. Ramakrishna said many simple stories in his life to illustrate important points.. But each time the stories will differ and you won’t see him getting attached to any of the stories in any way. The same with Ramana Maharshi; he narrated many stories depending on the questions of the seekers and the stories were only meant for the purpose of communicating something and not for asserting it as historical. The same with Osho too.
But do you see that this story of Adiyogi is like a part of Isha and is narrated as if it is a history? Even Sri Sri Ravi Shankar called this as nonsense in a video. Look at Saddhguru’s attachment to this story as it plays a main part in his discourses and serves even as a justification for Adiyogi statue. Moreover, this is about a human being who supposedly lived 15,000 years ago. He makes a claim about history and this is an extraordinary claim. I have also added how absurd the claim is because this Adiyogi concept is actually a mixture of three different concepts: A distorted version of the story of Nandinatha which is a folk story in Kashmir Shaivism (and I don’t insist that It really happened anyway. The reason why I even mentioned it is just to let people know how he has mixed these stories to create his own version and assert it as history), some stories from Shiva Purana, and about these 112 techniques which is mentioned in Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, a text which was actually written sometime during 8th century CE to 12th century CE. In fact, more than about five hundred tantric texts written during this period all have the same format: Conversation between Shiva and Shakthi! It is a style in literature, that’s all. But Sadhguru takes this literally and attributes all this to a human yogi who, according to him lived 15,000 years ago. I know very well that this story has served no purpose except to cause prejudice (to show non-Indians and non-Hindus that we are better than the rest of the world.)
Regarding the statement “no one (Enlightened Beings) owes anything to anyone”, I absolutely agree. I actually mentioned the word credit here in this article, because Sadhguru claims that he is giving credit to Adiyogi, a person which is his own creation. But another important point I am trying to make is not usually seen immediately by people. I think if you read this Quora answer, it will make it clear: http://qr.ae/TU1Bef
If you go through my blog and my Quora answers open-mindedly, you will eventually get the whole picture.
Hmm, Agreed. Thank you for your detailed and clear responses, lot of effort and work. I am no scientist, but water having memory is something science, rather the movie ‘What the bleep do we know?’ It is decade or more old movie also showcases experiments of words or thoughts on water and its effects. Well, I remember its reasonably elaborate mention in that movie.
You are welcome. When it comes to science, the opinion that an educated common man in India holds about it is usually a lot different from what science really is. People only have their own opinions about science.
Three years before, I bought a textbook of Psychology and finished it completely. That changed my entire understanding of what science is.
Anybody can conduct an experiment and just publish the results in a website or a magazine. An average Joe who reads it will think that it is science. That is not how science works. You can read this answer of mine in Quora to read more about those experiments and why they were not actually accepted by scientific community: http://qr.ae/TUpgKc
The scientific method is a very careful method that ensures that no other factors influence the results of an experiment other than the one variable that we are interested in. Unless the experiments are done in controlled conditions, mistakes are bound to occur.
An experiment conducted in such controlled conditions should be published in an authentic scientific journal, should be peer-reviewed and should be replicated many times by other individual scientists. I am pretty aware that this has not been done in case of water memory. So, Sadhguru’s statement that there is a substantial evidence for it in science is incorrect.
The movie you mentioned also received a lot of negative criticism from the scientific community. I haven’t watched the movie but I did read about it.
Movie can have negative criticism, Yes Emoto’s had lot of scientific criticism. Scientific community can disagree especially because it is difficult to make experiments exactly repetitive with exact same results particularly in this realms of human emotions or thoughts, so I understand its difficulty in being accepted and embraced by scientists. When we describe our own emotions or thoughts it is always something close to but never can be conceived by the other person in exact. It is immensely difficult to generate the same emotion or thought repeatedly. Well it has been so many years since I watched maybe now I myself might have a different way of consuming it like the movie (What the bleep do we know?). Only I do not like to dismiss in similar lines of Swami Vivenkananda’s speech where he says something like What is experiential through meditation will take ages for science to reach. Anyhow I gather from the vivid clarity of your posts that you see that and beyond and leave it with this quote.
The highest forms of understanding we can achieve are laughter and human compassion. ~ Richard P. Feynman
Such stories are called parables.
Osho says Shiva is the first Hippie of the world – the AdiHippie.
such beautiful hair!
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I come from a Shaiva background. I have read many sects within Shaivism and all I can say is that you are doing a wonderful job about creating an awareness of how Sadhguru is misusing and misinterpreting the information from the ancient texts and creating his own fantasy stories.
I have absolutely no problem with Sadhguru and his social services etc,. But the problem is when he mixes up these ancient teachings with his own stories then all our ancient teachings will be lost.
Maybe a decade back if we had asked anyone who is Shiva people would say either Shiva means AUSPICIOUSNESS or one of the Trinity (Maheshwara).
But now all I hear is shi va simply means that which is not. And I’m like WOW what a wonderful way of describing it but then they start their own story about Guru purnima and Adi yogi and sapta rishis. This created a lots of doubts in my mind. I have read many puranas and also being a Veerashaiva myself studied many of my own shaiva saints and nowhere it is mentioned like this.
I have even seen sadhguru misinterpreting the names and stories of my own tradition where he talks about Allama prabhu and Gorakhnath.
My humble request to Sadhguru and his followers is not to misinterpret things which has been passed on for generations by imaginary stories which has no basis .
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you nailed it! 🙂
First of all, I would like to thank you for such an elaborate post. And kudos to you for putting up with such negativism in the community. It is such an irony that the followers or “seekers” are the most disturbed here. Getting angry at you simply shows they failed their guru (if they have accepted him) and they have terribly failed in pursuing the spiritual path.
Regarding the post, I do agree in some parts with you and the rest I need to verify it for myself. Forgive me for saying this as I am not really in to any spiritual path nor informed about any gurus or schools or teachings and I am no scholar of Sanskrit and scriptures. My little knowledge comes from my father and uncle who were schooled in all four Vedas and other books from my grandfather ( which I again consider as a third party information 🙂 )
The one thing I agree the most with you is you asking people to stop believing and start seeking (which is what they want to do in theory). Doing that solves all the problems, ideally speaking. Only if it was so easily achievable 🙂
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Thank you.. 🙂
All you really need is the self enquiry method that was taught by Ramana Maharshi. I can’t think of a greater sage than him. I am just a 28 year old guy who came across his work and by employing his method i am able to go easily into a meditative state and calm the mind. I also can feel the soul or the self on the right side of my chest just a little away from the phyiscal heart. it feels like a blissful ball of light. thats how the energy feels to me and its like the sun in that when i meditate everything is drawn to that center of energy. when you follow his method it will put you on path to realization. I can’t even begin to thank him. when i first sat in his cave i felt overwhelmed. Never have i felt such power in my life. No fancy words, no ego, just pure silence. I would gladly kiss his feet and be the ground upon his feet. I love him. he is lord shiva in human form i am convinced. I don’t need any sadgurus quite frankly. truth has always been simple.
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There is nothing like arunachala in the entire planet. forget vedas, forget shastras and all other scriptures…….
my parents made me circle that amazing hill when i was very young. I had no idea how powerful it was then but now i know. few years later after university i just randomly came up on self enquiry. It was not random of course….. i can tell that ancient hill is different……
all these debates are because of the ego. you will never get anywhere with this crap. Just say “arunchala shiva” for a few days. say that mantra for few days and get back to me…..
sorry it is “arunachala shiva”
All Gurus are the same as religious organizations and cults, even if they claim not to be religious or cultish . They all fall under same category Total Horseshit! Human beings in general, are not too intelligent and are easily brainwashed into believing anything. This is the reason for religion , and cults like sadhguru.
You are entitled to your opinion but you shouldn’t expect to convince others just by asserting it like this. I don’t understand you perfectly. What is a guru (what do you mean)? Everything hinges on that! I hope you understand that I (or anyone else) should understand exactly what you mean before agreeing or disagreeing with you.
I simply dont like wht you say. Sadhguru takes me to that level of inner peace that no one can.
Good post! . I have been to Isha and practice meditation. But I also couldn’t accept the cult like following that happens in Isha . Guru is within you !.
Shanmugam, I read your posts with curiosity and will reluctantly agree some element of amusement. It seems like you have an axe to grind. I am also well read, with vedas, sanskrit though not an expert on yoga sutra. Shiva has many meanings and is synonymous directly as in the verbal root meaning also allegorically. Just like rudra means shiva though not necessarily in the Rig veda but allegorically an angry shiva. Now sanathana dharma is a like a multiheaded snake in terms of knowledge, myths and ithihaasas that other than Rig veda (shruti) everything else can be considered smrithi and I can even grant the yajur and sama veda to be shruti (debatable) while all other texts including the Bhagvad Gita are smritis (not a direct pramana) but is heard. i.e Sanjay recounts krishna saying in the Bhagvad Gita. To give you a metaphor, you can look at the shruti as the operating system which cannot be changed while the smritis can be moved, removed, erased, renamed and modified. I am not a Sadhguru devotee but as a physician found some of his medical explanation particularly pertaining to consciousness intriguing. I am also a follower of advaitha vedantha practice and I am very interested in the content than this nitpicking of who is shiva. As Shankaracharya would say tath tvam asi (thou art you). Perhaps I should suggest a more useful hobby for you to channel your energy and time.
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Raj, perhaps YOU should find another hobby instead of telling people they cannot speak their mind, specially in their own blog!!!! I’m sure you are a true student of Sadhguru. If not, you would have had an open mind and at least try to make a research onto what has been said here. Listen Raj, in the scope of big things, what ever Osho or Sadhguru have done is much better than what Hitler, Bonaparte, or Alcapone ever did… from another angle, those 3 mentioned were more honest since at least they were not pretending to be what they were not… Osho and others like him presented spirituality from a sensual, materialistic, and mundane perspective and as such the path to enlightenment earned one extra obstacle to be discerned and avoided. Almost everything that Sadhugu says is pure common sense, but without the “sexual” part of Osho. There is nothing enlightening from Sadhguru… nothing truly spiritual, let alone esoteric… BUT it is also true that he is feeding the hungry, and making schools, and planting trees, etc… and it can also be seen as the “propaganda front”… and let’s not forget the online business of charging money to become happy… his teachings online cost $400 and up ( https://www.innerengineering.com/SadhguruLive/register ) on the excuse that what he does for free “needs” money… As you know, all true masters have never charge money in any way or form, and they have all warned us never to pay for true spiritual knowledge. Any one can read 100 books and then any one can learn to talk, really talk, and then sell a cult and STILL sound legit (any one can read the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali and then sell them under a disguise)… if any one here is really seeking true spiritual teachings or wish to walk the true path to enlightenment, then look no farther than Sri Ramakrishna / Swami Vivekananda or Ramana Maharshi. They will never charge you any money. They will never ask you to become a follower nor a “volunteer”, specially to run any business of charging money for “what you already have inside of you” and which only needs an explanation as to how to unveil it, and that explanation is given out of compassion and true love… therefore, why let money be part of this equation? Money is the materialization of the selfishness level of our humanity. It can never be part of true spirituality. Sadhguru goes as far as common sense… and no more. Therefore, he and his efforts need money… as you and I also do, BECAUSE all of us are not there yet… Listen, don’t look to the moon when you can look at the sun; but if you must look at the moon, at least don’t call it “sun”.
Actually sadhguru claims adiyogi is an alien. He came 70,000 years ago but people wouldn’t digest that so he made it into 15000.
He also claims to be 50% adiyogi. He says he’s his sidekick so some alien which he thinks is adiyogi is manipulating him by possessing him (an entity) or he’s simply making shit up.
Some people I know who do energy readings say it’s a strong entity and sadhguru is doing his job. He also talks about how adiyogi is the plan and he’ll reveal the plan when more people are ready for it.
So in the meantime he’s gathering followers. There’s also some hypnosis going on to make people volunteer.
I recently did IE and after 2 months of doing it I see no benefits. Others who did the same are claiming they have and throwing the word bliss around like they know what it is. Some are already volunteering.
The volunteers all look lost and the teacher was simply parroting sadhguru.
Btw I wanted to do it as this whole thing has an energetic component to it so you release karma not only psychologically or even physically but on the level of the energy too. Causal body is what I understand it as but in sanskrit don’t know what it’s called.
So for that I feel body needs to be prepared and Kriya Yoga looks like the way.
I’ll try to get the book you recommended about Kriya Yoga but wouldn’t it be dangerous to do it from book? That’s why I went there as they teach you live and correct you.
Also there are many psychological blocks. Wouldn’t it be wise to release those blocks through some methods? Or use alpha brain waves to induce that state as you’re in alpha when you’re meditating so why not use technology to get into it?
Also if you’ve gone through trauma, ptsd then you need to work on that no?
My fear is if I totally surrender then existence will do what it wants to do and as it doesn’t care what happens then I won’t change my personality, beliefs, the traumas and everything that’s there which is preventing me from doing what I want to do or be a certain way or have certain things and that will continue as I won’t work on changing that.
Now the argument is it won’t matter but given a choice I’d like to live a certain way, be a certain way for eg instead of being homeless living in a luxurious apartment.
What do you think about that?
Further sadhguru isnt worth your time nor will their opinion change.
I’m in Isha group and all they really want is for more and more people to volunteer. How to make sadhguru a brand or even a bigger brand.
Of course they say we’re helping people experience what we’ve experienced. This is simply herd mentality and they don’t see they’re wasting their time, it’s just solace but also cultish behavior.
If I want to volunteer I can simply join an ngo but this was about spiritual growth not volunteering for Isha.
Sadguru is just full of shit. A liar misguiding people. I’ve been listening to him for few years and a lot but I’m very wary of these gurus so never believed a word he said, did my own research and your blog helps in that department so thank you for that.
shiva story, discourses on krishna all false.
You’ll leave your body after enlightenment another bull story.
Says don’t identify with body mind and then goes around the country telling people to be a nationalist, feel proud of your country, to the flag, be identified with that, this is our spiritual guru 😂
Doesn’t have guts to say things as they’re, keeps changing his tone. Kisses up to celebrities and the government.
He’s far from enlightened. He’s busy building his brand that’s what he’s interested in not the truth nor in helping people get enlightened. No one has.
He’s interested in minions so now he has gathered many minions throughout the world who helps him make his brand even bigger while he travels the world and everyone knows him and he takes all the credit.
The arrogance, the self jai jai kar everywhere is not of an enlightened person.
I can go on but let it be. I tried his IE and it didn’t do shit for me.
The witnessing you mention is the same anthony de mello also talked about but here psychological fears come up so then mind engages with them that’s why I said if maybe first those need to be dealt with?
Also many people think they’re enlightened as they realize something and then stop there but it’s not full enlightenment as there are deeper levels to it in a sense so don’t know where you’re at.
Hopefully you respond to this
Got a bit long
Thank you 🙏
PS: the dhyanalinga or yantras are also useless along with rudraksha?
I feel despite your intentions being noble, the title proved provocative in using ‘Nonsense’ there, which provoked quite a few people who react to the colloquial common meaning of such a word and not to dictionary meanings when they see it used.
Future blogs, request you to doublecheck that aspect as well. Thanks again for voicing your core belief that people should receive only Truth from their Gurus and even then they should test it out first by themselves.
K. Bharath Kumar
Aum Sai Sri Sai Jai Jai Sai
Thanks for the post.
Respect your curiosity & interest to share your study.
Sadhguru says in a video about “112 ways” & Buddha explored on only 1 aspect / 1 way. But looking at a short video of the 112 ways from a youtube video, I come think ofcourse all those 112 ways should be interconnected AND Buddha ofcourse should have known all 112 ways but have chosen 1 best/easier approach to teach people.
(Let me know if you have something to share about this?)
New thinking allowed history of yoga
Search this in youtube
And please reply!!
just an fyi i stopped reading your article when when started placing your assumptions into the mix. this is a bad article. you have written it very subjectively. more like you’re upset because what he thinks doesn’t fit what you think. not that there is really any proof either way from what i could tell… if you are going to attack someones beliefs, use fact to argue not belief. this is a major problem in the world, everyone got an opinion… most of the time these don’t reflect reality or any real facts…just beliefs and so on.
Guys, i would rather say instead of following anyone, better start meditating and do what u feel is right. I dont want to say mr jaggi vasudev is right or shanmugam is wrong. Maybe both are right, the point here is if you seriously want to find out the truth travel your journey alone instead of looking for a guru.
Shanmugam ji there is one question though i would like to ask you, like you said the first yogi or adiyogi came in 200 to 300 bc, how is it that budha came before him and is not the first yogi. Maybe i am wrong but can u please clarify.
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Mr shanmugam, just reading a few books an hearing some tales does not give u the right to say anything. I went through the rigveda and it clearly states that shiva was the first being to start yoga, apart from that i read about nandinatha who started yoga in 200 ad, even if it is 200 bc it does not matter, but for the fact that yoga was taught in nalanda long before that and you saying nandinatha was the first yogi is wrong. Budha was a student of nalanda university where he practised yoga long before even nandinatha came.
Nandinatha is considered as first yogi only by the people of south indianowhere else does it say that he was considered as the first yogi.
Please go through our vedas to get a better idea of whats written in there. I dont say mr jaggi vasudeva is a right person, maybe he is wrong, and i dont want to get into such discussion as well. But what he is said about shiva being the first yogi is right according to rigveda verse 10.
I dont want to comment on how others live, what he is trying to do is right or wrong, we are all good judge of situations ourselves.
Just that dont spread such things unless you are really sure about the authenticity of it.
I am sorry but the reason we follow Sadhguru is not because the story that he tells, it’s becuase the REAL experience ww get at Dhyanalinga and benefits we derived doing yogic kriyas
Rest of all is trial and error!! Ofcourse believing anybody blindly has been never taught in our land and he himself says so! I don’t think your post does justification and is in a bad taste
Yes maybe sadguru is wrong and try to make something special about him when explains shiva, but the logic mistake you made about osho and sadguru is this: if you are spiritual teacher it is almost impossible to say anything new than any other true spiritual teachers is saying. Another ironic and fun thing about people in this world is that most of the people hearing same and same ideas just in diffirent shape or forms and still paying money again again and again for different gurus – this is so ridiculious specially people from west, this is why osho and other gurus make good living, all them ideas heard from long time ago from true mystics who dont care people, dont care money and civilization. Same with all these clowns baba and so on 🙂
That ridiculous how people from isha foundation replied to you, the comenter is blind completely, because truth to spiritual powers is not from believing is from knowing based on logic, I dont believe anything, I just know it and I dont believe god, I trust god – this is fundamental different, believing is for people who want that someone else do things for them. Knowing is enjoying today, believing is hope life will be better in a future 🙂
I am personaly meditating and have had many mystical experience.
I read your article and I read few of your quora posts. I also read some of the comments here, although I don’t have time to go through all. There are people who support you, there are also some who refused to support you but humbly and I think in most you have been attacked ruthlessly. It is obvious that those who didn’t take care of their language, even if they have spoken in defense of Sadhguru, have not really understood him. Anyway, I realized, maybe your aim is not to criticize Sadhguru or the work he is doing through Isha Foundation; and you must have read extensively or believe that you have experienced enough for your enlightenment. Knowledge wise, your post is enriching. What disappoints me most is that if you really think you can show people a path (your posts or comments exudes an impression that that is your aim) then you have probably taken the wrong path or you haven’t come across some deeper realizations. In your defense, you have failed to show that you are bereft of an ego: the ‘I’ in you is so distinctly visible that it will turn off anyone who is truly wishing for higher experiences. The person who has understood even something about spirituality will never be interested with facts, or about seeking or giving credit etc. He/she will be so inward looking, that anything external wouldn’t matter much. This includes the possibility that they could be making mistakes from certain vantage points, but that is again very subjective. Why should you bother about people who are reactionaries (Isha volunteers or not), because everyone is gathering their Karma. For that matter even Sadhguru is. None of the gurus have ever been concerned about transforming those who are not willing to transform themselves; because a guru can assist only those who wish to transform themselves. What you could be most concerned about is, therefore, yourself: if you are truly and fully on the path you seek. I know I could have just passed by, without commenting, but from your responses I could see you appear to have the potential to walk on the spiritual path, so I hope you will understand I leave this comment in good faith, and not in any baser attempt at supporting or refuting what you say. Regards.
Good job. I agree. With many of your points I too noted this in jighi ji,s videos. Just like all others yogis like osho Krishnamurti jaggi ji also doing kind of same mistake . These all stated many things according to their understanding levels of intellect . And these things were wrong. This is the mistake which many moderators do due to their realisations and the power of intellect which came after that realisation of emptiness. But there is problem in it it takes time to develop up to super level and these gurus don’t give time but they starts to preach and it’s not their fault may be because it’s human nature to do soo. And about history I will say there is no gurantee of history to be true always because there are many possibilities may be in past some one did conspiracy and changed some words from scripts etc etc any possibilities so one should not talk about this like jaggi did and oso did and many others did many times. Jaggi said 15000 years u too mentioned this point but my intellect don’t except this because there can’t be a specific number for these type of things . Adiyogi can also be a name given to too many peoples many people can have this same name. There is a name adinaath too which is also a name of shiv and many other names. And all may have different stories which probably have been mixed due to faith system like stuff.
Another thing is people are not that smart them self that they can filter things.
I have not seen much video of sadguru the few I have seen I found he uses intellect a lot and it’s automatic in him. Just like all other humans have auto power mode of mind ego intellect . And many things he say are very nice and correct but many things are not at all correct. And this is due to human errors of human psychology which I guess he is learning slowly may be and if not he should. In the end I will say in this world it’s very hard to show correct information. And jaggi too is one of them who have some information. Whi just know some tricks techniques which he get from books and scripts which were translated to english. Because he can’t read sanskrit and hindi. Ao it’s no big deal . Any one can read vigyan bhairav him self as you have said there is english translated version on net available from many many years probably . And the techniques in it good. And that’s it which he uses . And many have used in past too . Like osho. And many others. And even if one don’t know this book. If one tyres to moderate many techniques will take place automatically in human mind and body. Which I have experienced in my child hood . And then I found vigyan bhairavanath and got amazed to know that this is techniques which no one taught mee but I learned my self by experience.
I enjoyed your video and explanation very much. I have been to see Sadhguru and was intrigued but, there was something a little off. He has the business end figured out very well – all if his work is done by volunteers. How completely awesome is that? No labour cost. Interesting. I also just went to an Osho retreat. It was also interesting. I somehow related more to what Osho wrote than how he actually lived. The concepts in theory are ok but somehow, both of these people speak to masses of people with an arrogance of privilege and financial wealth – on whose backs was this earned? The volunteers working their guts out believing that they will achieve salvation? So, there is a bad flavour for me with both of these people. Now, let me bring in Amma, just to compare. Amma serves the poor – literally, she dished out my meal. She is not above anyone (I mean, of course she is but, she serves people food, she rolls up her sleeves and gets in there to work and does not wear rich clothes – like you, I am not making a case for anyone, just having dialogue trying to make sense of things). I think that people today are so lost. They really need someone to believe in, to guide them, to set boundaries for them so that they can function. And that is great! Some people really thrive with this and I am happy for them. I seem to keep searching, always have one foot in but, one foot out. I think that people want to believe in something. I think they need to. Cult? Maybe. Osho certainly had that label. Sadhguru? Maybe. A statue 112 feet tall – how much did this cost? How many people could have been fed with that money? Osho and his cars – again, rather misguided when people around the world are starving. Amma -builds hospitals, homes for the homeless, builds schools, encourages people to be of service to everyone. Interesting. Sri Ramana Mahrishi – sacred. Look at the difference with him compared to Osho and Sadhguru. No comparison. I really enjoyed your article, information and video. I will not pretend to understand it all but, I do respect your opinion and your openness to questioning the validity of everything. And you are 100% correct with your ‘experiment’ – it is amazing how many people can be SO blindly hypocritical and they do not even realize that their bad behaviour is completely against what their ‘guru’s is about!!!!!! Most amazing. I am sorry that you are receiving abusive comments -it is really disheartening that people cannot discuss various viewpoints without resorting to anger and hate. But this is how the world is and this is how we have had so many wars and this is very likely how humanity will destroy itself. Thank you for reading but, mostly, thank you for having the courage to go public with your questioning. Question everything!!
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Thanks by your text. The only problem with it is you take Osho as a great reference. Osho had nothing of spirituality. He was deep locked in the maya’s illusions.
What is the best source about adiyogi? Thanks againg my brother. Namaste.
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A request to people replying to this post: PLEASE STOP. The more you comment, the more important this blog becomes. Someone trying to say that Sadhguru is wrong does not make him wrong.
We know what we know, through our experiences of meditation through Sadhguru’s guidance. That is all that matters.
Let me make it even more simple.
Just find if REBIRTH, Reincarnation is possible.
What are the possibilities if such a thing can happen?
I shouldn’t be putting these things on public and I know where it leads.
Find if you can be born in a particular womb?
Find if you can choose your date of birth and time to be born?
If nothing, find if you can quit your body with practice. Not saying fasting, or dying slowly with disease.
Just few months of Sadhana, can you be completely healthy, happy, successful, be in normal life but just sit there and quit your body when you want.
I can go on…
Rest I leave to your imagination, what is possible and not possible.
It doesn’t matter Shiva existed or he is not what people think.
Let me make a simple comment or rather, ask a simple question. Do you know the answers to all your “Find” questions of 26 April? I am not asking you to answer them, just state yes/no for each one.
Hi I see where this is leading.
All I am saying is please don’t BELIEVE me.
Hell with Jaggi as well.
But all I am saying do not disbelieve what I am saying.
I am saying you find out if these things exist.
You will know.
If you still think these things are fake, I completely respect your reasons.
But try to find out… Don’t believe anyone, not even your self.
Either you know these things are true or you do not know.
Try, just spend 2-3 months atleast to find if REBIRTH, reincarnation exists, can you be reborn at will, can you die at will without any illness, pain or fear.
Explore you will know.
Is it that easy? No, according to people who are considered great saints. All that we can get is a firm conviction.
Here try these:
Goto JIVASAMADHIS of any great souls like:
Sadhguru Sri Brahma Spot on 7th hill at Velliangiri
Even in temples built as per Agama Shastras you can get spiritual.
Abhayahastha Venkateshwara temple (TTD temple, built as per Agama Shastras) at Appalayagunta.
Dhyanalinga temple at Isha Ashram.
This is MAIN REASON why temples were built to become spiritual and not for the usual reason we go.
Ensure you have no work or duties for 2-3 months.
Go with Aim of with just to find if Spirituality exists or fake.
Stay there nearby for that 2-3 months.
Just go there everyday.
Just daily you have breakfast, lunch, dinner.
Stay in a place, hotel nearby.
But daily go to that Samadhi or temple.
Just sit, no need to meditate, focus, chant or do ritual or even keep seeing the deity or idol or Samadhi.
Just be in that place.
Eg: Like daily imagine you are going to theatre to watch movie for next 2-3 months, nothing else, same way just goto any one of the place listed.
Rest will happen but do not come back till you get experience.
So I am saying, plan, take off, ensure no duties, spend time 2-3 months.
Here are list of other Samadhis:
Just be grateful in case you get the experience or do not get disappointed, try again till you get the experience.
I repeat persistence and staying grounded, humble is the key.
I repeat stay humble and thankful and not get proud you got spiritual. Else it will back fire big time.
I also doubted this dressed up guy when I first viewed about him in YouTube advertisements. What? Another guru? Now with a Rajasthani turban, Santa clause model beard, osho model dress, his smart smiling face, his cunning eyes shining like a sexual teenager doesn’t match an ascetic. Always chuckling between speeches like he is funny guy speaking adult jokes. Everything I saw was diabolic. But his speech seemed wf he said homosexuality is good if done in private. I thought what the hell! This guy is an agent of the depopulation cum new world order, always appearing in free mason meetings. No wonder Modi have him Padma award. Then one day he says Shiva is not god, but a mortal, just like how Sachin became the god of the sports called cricket, a guy called d adiyogi became a god in Hinduism. I knew at that instant that he is making up stories with some aim. Then I saw that he made a huge face of his version of Shiva. Instantly I saw that the face was the same face this Jaggi guy had when he was young. Just the mustache was removed. The matted hair crown of the Hindu Shiva was purposefully removed by the Jaggi guy to resemble him. Another shock was when I saw his version of Devi in Hinduism. A bug shaped idol named Linga Bhairavi is being sold worldwide for hefty price. He literally invented this new Devi. How clever! You can get this idol from him only, but with a price, thus he gets benefitted financially. While the goddess in Hinduism is free for all.
Hello All, First of all, the notion of Shiva is a misnomer by many since time immemorial! Shiva has never assumed a body to manifest, you can only view Him as Linga. Maheshwara, Shankara Deva, Adi Shankara is the one who married Parvati. There is no connection to Adi Yogi and 10-15 K years ago walking the earth etc., The author Mr. Shanmugam might be right about Nandinath and Sadguru’s mixing up. The whole cosmos was created, maintained and annihilated many a times in the repetitive cycle of 4 ages. Lord Shiva/Krishna ( That said Krishna in Dwapara Yog was not born, but appeared as incarnation) is unborn, auspicious, dynamic fabric with energy. We are all parts-n-parcels of that Supreme Soul. We are individual souls never lose identity when in a body but do lose identity when you are in YOG with Shiva/Krishna. Shiv is Dynamic and Auspicious when in a body, then becomes Shava, a lifeless body when the Soul leaves it. Krishna is the most attractive and loving form of the same Shiva maintaining the Cosmos. Brahma does creation under the dominion of Shiva/Krishna. Maheshwara does Pralaya/Renewal of the Cosmos. In all, only ONE GOD doing all these under many a names! We are also many a human manifestations having individual Souls with unique photonic memory records imprinted. This is the one needs to sync with everyone to realize we are all one in spite diversity in every materialistic way.
This blog post has a lot of truth and I’d like to fill in some gaps for you. I am not a secularist like many who attack this organization for the wrong reasons. I have not read mystic musings or heavily watched his videos. He contradicts himself constantly and evades almost any question with more questions so anything in any video should be taken with a grain of salt.
Based on the methodology they use to ensnare followers and the contents of their teachings I do not believe Isha is even run by Jagi or even by Indians. Let me explain.
Over the last year during the coronavirus lockdown I had a friend who went full tilt into Sadhguru worship. While some of his peculiar actions can be chocked up to his usual erratic behaviour and habit of becoming obsessed with these self help mystic types, something about the way Isha cooks one’s brain is different from the rest. (Peterson, Jung, Watts, ect…)
First of all he started sending Sadhguru videos to our social circle. When most replied that they didn’t understand the point of the videos or that he just dances in circles around a topic without saying anything substantial, my friend would reply with anger and use the usual insults “you are egotistical, ignorant, stupid” ect…
He tried telling everyone separately that they were special and only they would understand what is being taught and that they needed to come to Isha presentations downtown (I lived in Ontario at the time). They were a few hundred dollars each. I was getting serious Scientology vibes at this point as Isha was rapidly resembling that unfortunate organization in my mind.
Interestingly enough he returned from a presentation stating that most of the workers there were Caucasian locals. He said that they do a bunch of strange exercises including holding a pendulum over a plate of food to “see how much energy it contains”.
In the months that followed he repeatedly claimed that he has to follow in the footsteps of Sadhguru and wanted to develop powers like leaving his body on command. When I asked him what his parents thought of him pursuing this instead of focusing on a career he went into a frenzy. He told me various things I assume he learned from Isha and somehow believed with absolute conviction.
-The Aztec empire was Vedic and was in communication with ancient India
-Sadhguru is an incarnation of Adiyogi (this one is obvious to notice as he constructs this narrative for followers to piece this together in their heads)
-Every other culture and civilization on Earth is worthless except for 1500-1100 BC India (the vedic period)
-Sadhguru is actually dead and has reanimated himself by absorbing the Prana of his followers
-Jaggi can control world events from his compound in Tennessee
-Punjab should be given to Pakistan as a peace concession
-The western world should be destroyed by communism so “Vedic thought” can conquer the remains
-If I don’t worship him I’ll be stuck in a state of suffering and torture for eternity (a normally Christian method)
I believe that Sadhguru tries to create followers out of separating people from their families. My friend stated his favourite parts of the Bhagavad Gita was when Krishna reminded Arjuna to slaughter his kin.
He also started sounding very over the top in regards to his devotion:
“Sadhguru is the mango lowered from the banyan tree to humanity”
“He is the mountain all must scale to reach the peak”
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Sadhguru constantly warns his followers away from reading any actual literature that he himself references constantly in his long winded explanations. He’s very obviously playing on the need for people in India to reconnect to their past (with his godman image and stories) even if he mutilates the entirety of our history to get there. He does not have the best interests of the country and it’s heritage in mind. He even gives speeches at Google and the World Economic Forum. This is a very good pointer towards who his real masters probably are.
This organization simply resembles every other multinational cult. The stuff they tell their adherents largely functions similar to the way these groups are run in the United States. I largely suspect that behind the scenes a group of marketers and executives develop the Sadhguru Adiyogi image and he is simply a very quick witted spokesperson. The things Isha pushes for are very globalist and will greatly damage India in the long span if allowed to continue. Anyone who dismantles their own countrymen’s ability to judge things correctly while pushing for “world peace” is obviously in the service of another entity.
Thank you for taking the time to dispel the dangerous illusions peddled by these people.